Labour Party leadership election 2015
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Author Topic: Labour Party leadership election 2015  (Read 138747 times)
ChrisDR68
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« Reply #275 on: June 20, 2015, 12:52:41 PM »

I know this is probably complicated, but could someone summarize what the different factions of the Labour Party are, and what policies each tends to support?  Like what places someone on the Labour Right, for instance?

For non-Labour voters the factions of the Labour Party are mind boggling and pretty bizarre (especially historically).

Ultimately it's a spread from the hard left (where Corbyn probably resides) to the Blairite right (where we have Kendall and Bradshaw).

The hard left:

Believe in a wealth tax, heavy redistribution of income and wealth from the rich to the poor, the return of the legal immunities to the trade unions that they lost in the 1980's, much higher taxation, spending and borrowing than at present and mass nationalisation of much of the economy.

The Blairite right:

Believe in modest wealth redistribution, more state control of some of the key elements of the economy short of nationalisation, higher public spending and a larger state sector than the Tories. Other than that they largely accept the economic status quo. In other words Tory Lite (to use the oft quoted left wing condemnation).

There are numerous factions inbetween these two that are too numerous to mention Wink
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Hifly
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« Reply #276 on: June 20, 2015, 02:38:03 PM »

The "Old Right" trade-union backed factions which you see in many other Labour parties have been very much diminished here. It used to be emboldened relatively recently in the "Labour First" faction led by Luke Akehurst, but that's effectively collapsed after their turbulent relationship with Progress failed.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #277 on: June 20, 2015, 03:38:45 PM »

The reach of the various organised factions these days doesn't extend much beyond getting people elected to the NEC on their slates. Progress made a big effort to try to get 'its' candidates selected for open seats during the last Parliament and (to cut a long story short) failed abysmally, and the situation is no better for the Grassroots Alliance:1 despite its domination of recent NEC elections, the organised parliamentary faction to which it is linked - the Socialist Campaign Group - is down to single digits. A case in point is provided by Christine Shawcroft2, who somehow gets re-elected to the NEC every time (to the entirely understandable horror of many, myself very much included), but failed to be selected as PPC by her own (rather left-wing) CLP when the seat opened up for the 2010 General Election.

So when people talk about Labour Party factions they're referring more to general ideological tendencies - or, and this is something seen only within the PLP and not at the grassroots, between supporters of two former Labour leaders with surnames starting with the little 'B' - than to factions in a classic sense.

Does that help?

1. Which as all Labour nerds know is literally just the old Campaign for Labour Party Democracy in a bad wig.
2. Party membership currently suspended due to supporting Lutfur Rahman.
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ChrisDR68
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« Reply #278 on: June 21, 2015, 10:41:49 PM »

Read this exchange in the comments section of this Dan Hodges article which I thought was quite telling (and which I agree with to a large extent):

amac

Labour is in a pickle. The membership broadly believe in Corbyn's world view. The nation at large don't. To win the leadership contest you have to win over the membership and then defecate on them to win a general election and be hated for evermore by them for selling them out.

Marc68 
Tragic isn't it? The activists want to maintain the purity of the faith which will lead to perennial opposition once the Tories decimate their welfare dependent constituency. In truth the activists are probably happier in opposition where the compromises of government do not apply.

All this is no good for ambitious politicos who want some power of course. Oh well, couldn't happen to a nicer bunch....


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11682718/Who-won-the-Labour-leadership-debate-Nobody.html 

I've always thought large elements of the Labour Party are essentially much happier in opposition. A culture that Tony Blair tried to change when he was leader but was only temporarily successful in this during the period he was prime minister. Once he stood down the party's default instinct of being the party of opposition and protest reasserted itself.   
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #279 on: June 22, 2015, 07:13:46 AM »

Whatever else, I doubt that Corbyn is going to state that he wishes to move the Labour Party away from the right and back towards the centre (as a certain candidate did last time).
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #280 on: June 22, 2015, 10:00:29 AM »

Also, I severely doubt many of his views would play well with the electorate at large... and this picture would probably feature a lot.

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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #281 on: June 22, 2015, 10:25:32 AM »

Also, I severely doubt many of his views would play well with the electorate at large... and this picture would probably feature a lot.



Doubtful; even the Royals are willing to be in the same room as him nowadays.
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #282 on: June 24, 2015, 10:46:22 AM »
« Edited: June 24, 2015, 11:53:37 AM by London Man »

Yeah, but that was in the 1980s when the IRA were still very much active... and the Daily Mail still doesn't like Adams.
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Blair
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« Reply #283 on: June 26, 2015, 09:30:37 AM »

Nah-people dont really give a sh**t about the IRA anymore. Gerry Adams may not be Mandela but people actually don't see him as an issue.

If the Queen is happy to meet with him, then it's a complete non-issue. The Mail are going to attack Labour whoever they put up. Corbyn has many other flaws
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Blair
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« Reply #284 on: June 26, 2015, 09:32:59 AM »

Read this exchange in the comments section of this Dan Hodges article which I thought was quite telling (and which I agree with to a large extent):

amac

Labour is in a pickle. The membership broadly believe in Corbyn's world view. The nation at large don't. To win the leadership contest you have to win over the membership and then defecate on them to win a general election and be hated for evermore by them for selling them out.

Marc68 
Tragic isn't it? The activists want to maintain the purity of the faith which will lead to perennial opposition once the Tories decimate their welfare dependent constituency. In truth the activists are probably happier in opposition where the compromises of government do not apply.

All this is no good for ambitious politicos who want some power of course. Oh well, couldn't happen to a nicer bunch....


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11682718/Who-won-the-Labour-leadership-debate-Nobody.html 

I've always thought large elements of the Labour Party are essentially much happier in opposition. A culture that Tony Blair tried to change when he was leader but was only temporarily successful in this during the period he was prime minister. Once he stood down the party's default instinct of being the party of opposition and protest reasserted itself.   

I partly agree, partly disagree to play moderate hero.

TB was very successful in the early years with House of Lords, minimum wage etc but he drifted so far off after 2005. I'm not even one of the Iraq opponents but I still think the stuff Labour did post 2003 like Tuition Fees, ID cards, 44 days detention and Cannabis laws was crap. It simply wasn't what a centre left party should do
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #285 on: June 26, 2015, 11:00:26 AM »

Map of CLP nominations to date:



News also of Union endorsements: Corbyn has been nominated by ASLEF and the BWAFU, which is not exactly surprising. He has also been endorsed by the FBU and is expected to be endorsed pretty soon by the RMT; neither of these two are Labour affiliated these days, but the new rules mean that they could have some influence if they can get some of the members signed up as registered supporters.
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JerryArkansas
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« Reply #286 on: June 26, 2015, 11:14:41 AM »

Sibboleth, what does the race in endorsements in Parliament look like at the moment?  (A map would be cool if you want to make one.)
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #287 on: June 26, 2015, 12:02:48 PM »

Sibboleth, what does the race in endorsements in Parliament look like at the moment?  (A map would be cool if you want to make one.)

PLP nominations have closed: you can find a map on the first page of the thread. Note that not every MP who nominates a candidate necessarily supports them (an issue with Corbyn more than the other candidates of course).
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JerryArkansas
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« Reply #288 on: June 26, 2015, 12:25:36 PM »

Sibboleth, what does the race in endorsements in Parliament look like at the moment?  (A map would be cool if you want to make one.)

PLP nominations have closed: you can find a map on the first page of the thread. Note that not every MP who nominates a candidate necessarily supports them (an issue with Corbyn more than the other candidates of course).
Thanks, really helpful.  Also great job on covering this election Sibboleth.
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ChrisDR68
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« Reply #289 on: June 28, 2015, 05:52:32 AM »

I partly agree, partly disagree to play moderate hero.

TB was very successful in the early years with House of Lords, minimum wage etc but he drifted so far off after 2005. I'm not even one of the Iraq opponents but I still think the stuff Labour did post 2003 like Tuition Fees, ID cards, 44 days detention and Cannabis laws was crap. It simply wasn't what a centre left party should do

My point is that when the Conservatives are in power in many ways "normal" service has been resumed.

The Tories see themselves (rightly or wrongly) as the natural party of government. Labour see themselves as the natural party of opposition and protest.

A pretty crap political set-up if you ask me.

Everyone should want competitive politics with both major parties seeing themselves as equally competent and worthy of governing the country.

Going back many decades and for complex historical reasons that simply isn't the case in UK politics.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #290 on: July 02, 2015, 12:52:35 PM »

Updated map of CLP nominations is now at the head of the thread. This is not the easiest thing to keep track of, so apologies for any errors.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #291 on: July 04, 2015, 09:02:12 PM »

Since midday Corbyn supporters have been urging their hard left friends/followers on social media to pay the three quid, btw. Surely there would be a safeguard against such tactics, no?

I hope not.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #292 on: July 05, 2015, 08:24:57 AM »

Interested to see how many refusals are reported. They don't stop CDU supporters from joining, I take it.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #293 on: July 05, 2015, 08:26:20 AM »

I tend to think there will be more in the way of checking for mischief makers from points right rather than left (who wouldn't be making mischief anyway, whatever they're doing). It will be interesting to see if the FBU and/or RMT make much of an effort on that front.

Anyway, Unite have issued an official endorsement for whatever it's worth*: Corbyn for first preference, Burnham for second.

*Unite being, contrary to media belief, a very diverse organisation not really capable of imposing political will across its membership.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #294 on: July 05, 2015, 08:36:47 AM »

So yeah... Kendall is finishing last then.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #295 on: July 05, 2015, 08:43:34 AM »

It will be interesting to see if the FBU and/or RMT make much of an effort on that front.

On the front of joining en masse to vote Corbyn, or on the front of mischief?

Anyway, Unite have issued an official endorsement for whatever it's worth*: Corbyn for first preference, Burnham for second.

That's where I'm at.

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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #296 on: July 05, 2015, 08:59:22 AM »

On the front of joining en masse to vote Corbyn, or on the front of mischief?

The former, obviously. Of course en masse would be relative as you could only ever get the politically committed to do so, and most people don't join unions for political reasons.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #297 on: July 05, 2015, 09:12:26 AM »

True, is it even possible to keep track of?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #298 on: July 05, 2015, 09:15:57 AM »


Maybe if you were an FBU or RMT official Tongue
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Hifly
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« Reply #299 on: July 05, 2015, 11:26:01 AM »
« Edited: January 04, 2019, 05:43:51 PM by Hifly »


Anyway, Unite have issued an official endorsement for whatever it's worth*: Corbyn for first preference, Burnham for second.

*Unite being, contrary to media belief, a very diverse organisation not really capable of imposing political will across its membership.

My facebook feed has registered the massive fuss that has already been stirred up among members over this, because as you mention Unite's membership is politically diverse (and thus includes many hackish Kendallites).
I've also noticed that Kendall supporters tend to be more argumentative and hyperpartisan towards their candidate than supporters of the other candidates in general.

In principle, there is nothing out of order with Unite's decision. Executives of all affiliated organisations, whether they be unions, socialist societies or CLPs, have been democratically elected by the membership and thus have the full right to make a recommendation to their members. This endorsement has no direct authority in the final ballot, but is merely a legitimate recommendation which members are not obliged to follow.
  
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