UK General Discussion Thread: mayy lmao
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Author Topic: UK General Discussion Thread: mayy lmao  (Read 139816 times)
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #1225 on: April 18, 2017, 05:04:42 PM »

WE NEED OUR HERO TO RETURN
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Lumine
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« Reply #1226 on: April 18, 2017, 05:52:10 PM »
« Edited: April 18, 2017, 05:57:58 PM by Lumine »


"I cannot forsee any circumstances in which I might return."

For the record, it's incredibly funny how many Spitting Image sketches would still work nowadays. It wouldn't be that hard to switch Kinnock and Hattersley with Corbyn and McDonnell on this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQydKmNuh9w
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #1227 on: April 19, 2017, 03:54:34 AM »

Dennis Skinner will be the Father of the House after this election. Haha

Which reminds me: will the Tories finally launch another coup attempt against Bercow following the election?

I'm reminded because the Father of the House oversees speakership elections.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #1228 on: April 19, 2017, 04:33:10 AM »

Dennis Skinner will be the Father of the House after this election. Haha

Which reminds me: will the Tories finally launch another coup attempt against Bercow following the election?

I'm reminded because the Father of the House oversees speakership elections.

Assuming Bercow is actually outset what's next for him? The backbenches? Seems tricky, given once a Speaker, former or not, you are no longer member of any party. Immediate kick upstairs to the Lords?
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #1229 on: April 19, 2017, 06:12:38 AM »

Dennis Skinner will be the Father of the House after this election. Haha

Which reminds me: will the Tories finally launch another coup attempt against Bercow following the election?

I'm reminded because the Father of the House oversees speakership elections.

Assuming Bercow is actually outset what's next for him? The backbenches? Seems tricky, given once a Speaker, former or not, you are no longer member of any party. Immediate kick upstairs to the Lords?

Probably to the Lords and a by-election in Buckingham.
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Barnes
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« Reply #1230 on: April 19, 2017, 12:19:59 PM »
« Edited: April 19, 2017, 12:48:24 PM by Barnes »

Dennis Skinner will be the Father of the House after this election. Haha

Which reminds me: will the Tories finally launch another coup attempt against Bercow following the election?

I'm reminded because the Father of the House oversees speakership elections.

Assuming Bercow is actually outset what's next for him? The backbenches? Seems tricky, given once a Speaker, former or not, you are no longer member of any party. Immediate kick upstairs to the Lords?

Probably to the Lords and a by-election in Buckingham.

Bercow already stated he would be retiring as Speaker within a year or two which made that idiotic rebellion against him even more quixotic than it already was. I cannot see May wanting to inflict damage on her (presumably emphatic) victory by having the first day of the new Parliament dominated with her ditching the Speaker.

However, if Bercow were to bring forward his plans to retire at this election he would be elevated to the Lords in due course and there would be an open election for Speaker.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #1231 on: April 19, 2017, 12:31:48 PM »

If Bercow retired, can we have him as a moderator on this forum? He'd be an excellent pick.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #1232 on: April 21, 2017, 01:04:56 AM »

I'm disappointed. If she had to call an early election, it should've been a May election, not June. 😁
I predict the election will be not the end of May, but more boldly this: the election will be after the end of May.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #1233 on: April 23, 2017, 12:33:37 PM »

Given Labour's defeat is very likely, I really hope they will finally toss Corbyn overboard after.

Betfair's currently giving a better than 50/50 chance of Corbyn being out by the end of 2017.

Probability to be the next Labour leader after Corbyn:

Yvette Cooper 18.6
Keir Starmer 17.4
Lisa Nandy 8.4
Clive Lewis 7.8
Chuka Umunna 7.5
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Blair
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« Reply #1234 on: April 23, 2017, 02:09:30 PM »

The tories have been briefing the times that they're A.) Going to depose Bercow B.) Asking CCHQ to not put a lot of fight against Lindsay Hoyle, who is a Lab MP, and deputy speaker.

The hope is that he'd become speaker; although I know that Chris Byrant wants to be Speaker, and imo both would be great picks
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Barnes
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« Reply #1235 on: April 23, 2017, 04:20:54 PM »

The tories have been briefing the times that they're A.) Going to depose Bercow B.) Asking CCHQ to not put a lot of fight against Lindsay Hoyle, who is a Lab MP, and deputy speaker.

The hope is that he'd become speaker; although I know that Chris Byrant wants to be Speaker, and imo both would be great picks

Oh really? God that's going to be messy and counterproductive. But both Labour MPs are good to me; Bryant has to see what transpires in Rhondda first.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #1236 on: April 23, 2017, 04:30:28 PM »

Electing a Labourite Speaker means one less Labour MP to worry about Tongue
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Barnes
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« Reply #1237 on: April 23, 2017, 04:33:12 PM »

Electing a Labourite Speaker means one less Labour MP to worry about Tongue

As in changing the party numbers? The tradition is to usually elect a Deputy Speaker from the opposite party who (while staying in the party, doesn't vote) would even it out.

Of course, one less MP to bother Corbyn is the other idea. Lol.
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Blair
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« Reply #1238 on: April 23, 2017, 05:09:00 PM »

The tories have been briefing the times that they're A.) Going to depose Bercow B.) Asking CCHQ to not put a lot of fight against Lindsay Hoyle, who is a Lab MP, and deputy speaker.

The hope is that he'd become speaker; although I know that Chris Byrant wants to be Speaker, and imo both would be great picks

Oh really? God that's going to be messy and counterproductive. But both Labour MPs are good to me; Bryant has to see what transpires in Rhondda first.

As much as I love Bercow I feel his time has come to an end; as long as someone like Kate Hoey or Rees Mogg doesn't become Speaker I'm not that upset.

I heard that Plaid were going at Rhondda hard; and Leanne Wood (their leader) was going to run. It has a 7k lab majority but god knows what could happen with weird swings/turnout
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Barnes
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« Reply #1239 on: April 23, 2017, 05:16:08 PM »
« Edited: April 23, 2017, 06:09:32 PM by Barnes »

The tories have been briefing the times that they're A.) Going to depose Bercow B.) Asking CCHQ to not put a lot of fight against Lindsay Hoyle, who is a Lab MP, and deputy speaker.

The hope is that he'd become speaker; although I know that Chris Byrant wants to be Speaker, and imo both would be great picks

Oh really? God that's going to be messy and counterproductive. But both Labour MPs are good to me; Bryant has to see what transpires in Rhondda first.

As much as I love Bercow I feel his time has come to an end; as long as someone like Kate Hoey or Rees Mogg doesn't become Speaker I'm not that upset.

I heard that Plaid were going at Rhondda hard; and Leanne Wood (their leader) was going to run. It has a 7k lab majority but god knows what could happen with weird swings/turnout

Leanne Wood won the Assembly version of the seat on a 21% swing to Plaid. The comparisons only go so far, but they're fairly bullish about making it competitive if she's the candidate.

As far as Bercow, it might be time for him to be gracefully promoted to the other place, but as I said a few days ago, trying to axe him on the floor of the House on the first day back would seem rather suicidal.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #1240 on: April 23, 2017, 06:02:45 PM »

The tories have been briefing the times that they're A.) Going to depose Bercow B.) Asking CCHQ to not put a lot of fight against Lindsay Hoyle, who is a Lab MP, and deputy speaker.

The hope is that he'd become speaker; although I know that Chris Byrant wants to be Speaker, and imo both would be great picks

Oh really? God that's going to be messy and counterproductive. But both Labour MPs are good to me; Bryant has to see what transpires in Rhondda first.

As much as I love Bercow I feel his time has come to an end; as long as someone like Kate Hoey or Rees Mogg doesn't become Speaker I'm not that upset.

I heard that Plaid were going at Rhondda hard; and Leanne Wood (their leader) was going to run. It has a 7k lab majority but god knows what could happen with weird swings/turnout

Leanne Wood won the Assembly version of the seat on a 21% swing to Plaid. The comparisons only go so far, but they're fairly bullish about making it competitive if she's the candidate.

As far as Bercow, it might be time for his to be gracefully promoted to the other place, but as Insaid a few days ago, trying to axe him on the floor of the House on the first day back would seem rather suicidal.

Wood was running against a controversial incumbent though, don't think Bryant inspires the same dislike. She's also not running this election as of a few hours ago.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #1241 on: April 24, 2017, 09:39:17 PM »

Given Labour's defeat is very likely, I really hope they will finally toss Corbyn overboard after.

Betfair's currently giving a better than 50/50 chance of Corbyn being out by the end of 2017.

Probability to be the next Labour leader after Corbyn:

Yvette Cooper 18.6
Keir Starmer 17.4
Lisa Nandy 8.4
Clive Lewis 7.8
Chuka Umunna 7.5


Pardon my ignorance, but where would these fall on a Blair to Corbyn scale?
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ObserverIE
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« Reply #1242 on: April 24, 2017, 09:59:34 PM »

Given Labour's defeat is very likely, I really hope they will finally toss Corbyn overboard after.

Betfair's currently giving a better than 50/50 chance of Corbyn being out by the end of 2017.

Probability to be the next Labour leader after Corbyn:

Yvette Cooper 18.6
Keir Starmer 17.4
Lisa Nandy 8.4
Clive Lewis 7.8
Chuka Umunna 7.5


Pardon my ignorance, but where would these fall on a Blair to Corbyn scale?

From internal right to left:

Umunna > Cooper >(?) Starmer > Nandy > Lewis

Umunna is the closest to being Blairite; Cooper is a Brownite. Starmer is too recent an arrival to have gotten involved in the internal manoeuvrings.

Nandy is on the left but was not a fan of Corbyn to begin with; Lewis is further left but has become estranged from Corbyn's clique.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
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« Reply #1243 on: April 24, 2017, 10:14:18 PM »

Given Labour's defeat is very likely, I really hope they will finally toss Corbyn overboard after.

Betfair's currently giving a better than 50/50 chance of Corbyn being out by the end of 2017.

Probability to be the next Labour leader after Corbyn:

Yvette Cooper 18.6
Keir Starmer 17.4
Lisa Nandy 8.4
Clive Lewis 7.8
Chuka Umunna 7.5


Pardon my ignorance, but where would these fall on a Blair to Corbyn scale?

From internal right to left:

Umunna > Cooper >(?) Starmer > Nandy > Lewis

Umunna is the closest to being Blairite; Cooper is a Brownite. Starmer is too recent an arrival to have gotten involved in the internal manoeuvrings.

Nandy is on the left but was not a fan of Corbyn to begin with; Lewis is further left but has become estranged from Corbyn's clique.

Between these Nandy seems the best ideologically but they're all so lackluster.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #1244 on: April 24, 2017, 10:27:35 PM »

Forgive me if there's a really obvious example that I'm blanking on, but has any country in the world that has a parliamentary system ever had a female prime minister and female leader of the opposition at the same time?
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Babeuf
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« Reply #1245 on: April 24, 2017, 10:48:08 PM »

Forgive me if there's a really obvious example that I'm blanking on, but has any country in the world that has a parliamentary system ever had a female prime minister and female leader of the opposition at the same time?

Not really what you're looking for, but Scotland right now is one.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #1246 on: April 25, 2017, 01:46:41 AM »

Forgive me if there's a really obvious example that I'm blanking on, but has any country in the world that has a parliamentary system ever had a female prime minister and female leader of the opposition at the same time?

Poland during 2015 (if it counts, given there is no real leader of opposition figure).

Bangladesh for quite some time now.

And New Zealand between Shipley and Clark.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #1247 on: April 25, 2017, 05:23:39 AM »
« Edited: April 25, 2017, 05:32:16 AM by Eternal Sun Of Atlas »

Forgive me if there's a really obvious example that I'm blanking on, but has any country in the world that has a parliamentary system ever had a female prime minister and female leader of the opposition at the same time?

Poland during 2015 (if it counts, given there is no real leader of opposition figure).

We've never had an "official opposition", like there's in the UK, though it's more and more frequent to reefer to a leader of largest nongovernmental party as "leader of the opposition". We don't have shadow cabinets. PO tried it in 2005 and it was a fail.

Between 2007 and 2015 Kaczyński was an undisputed leader of the opposition, as Miller between 1997 and 2001. There was a strange situation between 2001 and 2005, as every other party than SLD was a small one, so there was no one "main opposition". Kind of like Canada after 1993 election.

PO is still a main opposition, if only for having a largest number of seat. It appeared for a while Petru might overtake PO in the polls permanently, becoming a main competition to PiS, but he f**ked it up.


If we were to follow the British model, the following would be a list of Leaders of the Opposition post-1991.

1991-1992: Tadeusz Mazowiecki (Democratic Union)
1992-1993: Aleksander Kwaśniewski (Democratic Left Alliance)
1993-1995: Tadeusz Mazowiecki (Democratic Union/Freedom Union)
1995-1997: Leszek Balcerowicz (Freedom Union)

1997-2001: Leszek Miller (Democratic Left Alliance)
2001-2003: Maciej Płażyński (Civic Platform)
2003-2007: Donald Tusk (Civil Platform)

2007-2015: Jarosław Kaczyński (Law and Justice)
2015-2016: Ewa Kopacz (Civic Platform)
2016-now: Grzegorz Schetyna (Civic Platform)
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #1248 on: April 25, 2017, 11:02:13 AM »

Forgive me if there's a really obvious example that I'm blanking on, but has any country in the world that has a parliamentary system ever had a female prime minister and female leader of the opposition at the same time?

i assume the fact that both the left and the greens have double leadership doesn't count?
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #1249 on: April 26, 2017, 10:36:39 PM »

One poll shows a drop in support for Scottish independence:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/25/poll-blow-nicola-sturgeon-scottish-independence-support-drops/
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