UK General Discussion Thread: mayy lmao

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Even rumours about reshuffles that probably aren't totally baseless need to be taken with industrial quantities of salt (i.e. in terms of the names rather than necessarily any direction of travel) particularly when they obviously come from just one individual. As always you're better off playing wait and see.

As for Abbott, she's barely capable of carrying out her current role. It would be nice if the excessive promotion of proven incompetents could be kept to a minimum, and I would point out that it would even be to the benefit of the leadership to take that line.

[Blair]

The Independent is saying (in a way that's more than just baseless rumours) that a shadcab reshuffle will take place early in the new year. Hilary Benn and Maria Eagle to be sacked and Diane Abbott to be moved to shadow foreign secretary, though it is said that she wants the job of chief whip (that would be something to behold...).

Oh God Diane Abbott as chief whip would be too good-loved that when Jess Phillips told her to F off, most MP's said they'd been wanting to say that to her for years.

I wondered how long the Cabinet charade would last-it's rare to have the case like with Eagle where your Shadow Defense minister refuses to say you're the right guy for the job.

Sacking Benn would look petty, and as much as I'd like it people like Burnham, Smith and Falconer should walk over that.

[Silent Hunter]

The problem for Corbyn is that he can either have a competent ShadCab or one that agrees with him. He can't have both.

[ChrisDR68]

As for Abbott, she's barely capable of carrying out her current role. It would be nice if the excessive promotion of proven incompetents could be kept to a minimum, and I would point out that it would even be to the benefit of the leadership to take that line.

Can you expand on why you consider Abbott an incompetent?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Like a leftist version of the Australian Abbott IMO

[Slow Learner]

Ollie Letwin's going out the door, apparently.

[YL]

Ollie Letwin's going out the door, apparently.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/30/oliver-letwin-blocked-help-for-black-youth-after-1985-riots

At some point I'd got the impression that Letwin was a relatively liberal sort of Tory (though also a small state ideologue).  Not in 1985 it seems.

[Slow Learner]

Ollie Letwin's going out the door, apparently.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/30/oliver-letwin-blocked-help-for-black-youth-after-1985-riots

At some point I'd got the impression that Letwin was a relatively liberal sort of Tory (though also a small state ideologue).  Not in 1985 it seems.

To be fair, John Bercow was a member of the Monday Club once.

[Phony Moderate]

Ollie Letwin's going out the door, apparently.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/30/oliver-letwin-blocked-help-for-black-youth-after-1985-riots

At some point I'd got the impression that Letwin was a relatively liberal sort of Tory (though also a small state ideologue).  Not in 1985 it seems.

To be fair, John Bercow was a member of the Monday Club once.

Twenty-something members of just about any political party tend to be more obnoxious than those in any other age bracket.

[Hnv1]

Got a feeling EdM might return as a shadow cabinet minister. any word on that?

[Slow Learner]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35204398

Simon Danczuk suspended for his...activities.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Wtf is up with Rochdale?

It is quite funny a crusading paedogonist is a creep himself though.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

PoliticL strategist and scumbag (but I repeat myself) Lyndon Crosby has been knighted, causing some annoyance.

[Silent Hunter]

Junior doctor strike is back on

[Phony Moderate]

PoliticL strategist and scumbag (but I repeat myself) Lyndon Crosby has been knighted, causing some annoyance.

Appropriate little slip there.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

RIP IN PIECE

[Slow Learner]

RIP IN PIECE

Remember when they were actually relevent?

[DavidB.]

Good.

[Phony Moderate]

The inquiry into the polling cock-up was, unsurprisingly, a complete waste of time. Also worth noting that the polls were more wrong in 1992 and yet I'm pretty sure there wasn't such a massive inquiry then.

[Blair]

The inquiry into the polling cock-up was, unsurprisingly, a complete waste of time. Also worth noting that the polls were more wrong in 1992 and yet I'm pretty sure there wasn't such a massive inquiry then.

They basically said 'we got the SNP/lib Dems/UKIP right' so we're off the hook. The problem was much more the media who made it all about SNP/Labour

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It is a calculated mea culpa to reassure the people who buy their products (i.e. newspapers) and nothing else. Which is why the 'findings' are a joke: the problem with our survey was that the wrong people answered it!

[ChrisDR68]

The inquiry into the polling cock-up was, unsurprisingly, a complete waste of time. Also worth noting that the polls were more wrong in 1992 and yet I'm pretty sure there wasn't such a massive inquiry then.

Labour had a crap leader in 1992 and a crap leader in 2015. Everything else stems from that really.

I think the polls got both elections wrong because the electorate wanted to get rid of the Tories both times but couldn't stomach putting Kinnock and Miliband in so there was a lot of last minute reluctant voting for the Conservatives.

[Phony Moderate]

Labour had a crap leader in 1992 and a crap leader in 2015. Everything else stems from that really.

The former was a decent leader of the party; better than both Blair and Wilson in fact. I disagree with much of what he did to the party but he had a lot of difficulty to overcome in doing it. Blair and Wilson, meanwhile, oversaw significant membership declines and their overall tenures arguably made the party electorally unpopular for a generation, even if they were both popular to begin with. If not for their electoral successes (which of course are considerable) they'd be viewed as disasters on the scale of IDS and Foot; had the Tories clung on for instance in '64 (which they nearly did) the memory of Wilson would be "ah, that incompetent little Northerner who smoked a pipe". But they have to counted as 'decent' as they clearly were competent in appealing to the public. You have to be a decent leader to win elections but you don't have to win elections to be a decent leader - Churchill had a poor record in general elections he fought (all popular vote losses including of course one landside defeat) and yet few would dispute that he was a good leader, at least of the country if not his party.

As for Ed, well yes he certainly wasn't good, though John Howard's original stint as leader of the Aussie Liberals was defined by public awkwardness, gaffes and an election defeat in which the party lost seats...

[ChrisDR68]

Blair and Wilson, meanwhile, oversaw significant membership declines and their overall tenures arguably made the party electorally unpopular for a generation, even if they were both popular to begin with. If not for their electoral successes (which of course are considerable) they'd be viewed as disasters on the scale of IDS and Foot.

But that surely is the key as to how to judge a party leader.

Labour has inordinate trouble getting itself elected due to the enormous baggage the party saddles itself with (a reputation for tax and spend, of not being trustworthy with managing the economy, unpopular un-prime ministerial leaders, unilateral nuclear disarmament during the 80's and very likely to be adopted again under Corbyn in the near future, thuggish union leaders (to wit Len McCluskey) having undue influence over the party and regular, bitter civil wars to name but a few.

Only Attlee, Wilson and Blair have ever won an overall majority in Labour's history so their legacy is even greater than what you state above. Outside of those three leaders it's been a train wreck at general election time for the Labour Party.

[Lurker]

The inquiry into the polling cock-up was, unsurprisingly, a complete waste of time. Also worth noting that the polls were more wrong in 1992 and yet I'm pretty sure there wasn't such a massive inquiry then.

What were the findings/excuses in inquiry?

As for other great failures of the British polling industry, there's 1970 as well (interesting that they in these cases always seem to underestimate the Tory share of the vote vis-a-vis Labour).