UK General Discussion Thread: mayy lmao

[ag]

I could see an "Alliance" between anti-Corbyn Labour and the LibDems but I doubt the LibDems would get to be dominant.

Well, but if the Labour name is taken by the Corbynites, they will have to think up something new. So, Should it be Liberal Labour Party? I like LLP for the abbreviation

[Maxwell]

How about Les Democrats - to mock the french Les Republicans, maybe?

[DINGO Joe]

Monster Raving Liberal Labor Party.

[Illiniwek]

Monster Raving Liberal Labor Party.

Sign me up!

[Antonio the Sixth]

Corbyn refuses to resign, says no confidence vote has 'no constitutional legitimacy'

This is what happens when you let the Neo-Marxists into the party. They seize power and never let it go.

there is nothing neo-anything about Corbyn and he has not made significant changes to the party rulebook either, the procedure is for a challenger to, you know, challenge the incumbent. if the PLP want him out that badly they should've pulled their fingers out and nominated a challenger on monday morning rather than fartarsing about with a non-binding pantomime

Well, the militants almost took over the party in the early 80s, but yeah, I wouldn't place Corbyn at the same footing with them.

Nice choice of word.

[parochial boy]

I'm starting to think of a scenario where Corbyn wins the election, the PLP freaks out and splits and somehow convinces Farron to do a Lib Dem merger 2.0. I just want to see it because I want to see how hilarious it would be if the Lib Dems somehow become the official opposition for four months.

Are you sure it would only be four months? If a major split occurs, we might be in for a serious realignment.

That really depends on what Labour's traditional vote do in the next few months/years. In the 1980s, the loyalty of working class northern voters was a large part of why Labour won out over the SDP in the end.

At the moment, it's not really obvious that that loyalty exists any more. Where would working class voters go in the event of such a split? Would either party be able to appeal to them?

[Slow Learner]

Michael Gove is in the running now. Boris just got backstabbed.

Corbyn refuses to resign, says no confidence vote has 'no constitutional legitimacy'

This is what happens when you let the Neo-Marxists into the party. They seize power and never let it go.

there is nothing neo-anything about Corbyn and he has not made significant changes to the party rulebook either, the procedure is for a challenger to, you know, challenge the incumbent. if the PLP want him out that badly they should've pulled their fingers out and nominated a challenger on monday morning rather than fartarsing about with a non-binding pantomime

Well, the militants almost took over the party in the early 80s, but yeah, I wouldn't place Corbyn at the same footing with them.

Nice choice of word.

BRTD isn't in here.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Michael Gove is in the running now. Boris just got backstabbed.

Corbyn refuses to resign, says no confidence vote has 'no constitutional legitimacy'

This is what happens when you let the Neo-Marxists into the party. They seize power and never let it go.

there is nothing neo-anything about Corbyn and he has not made significant changes to the party rulebook either, the procedure is for a challenger to, you know, challenge the incumbent. if the PLP want him out that badly they should've pulled their fingers out and nominated a challenger on monday morning rather than fartarsing about with a non-binding pantomime

Well, the militants almost took over the party in the early 80s, but yeah, I wouldn't place Corbyn at the same footing with them.

Nice choice of word.

BRTD isn't in here.

...don't tell me you don't know the name of the guy who led Labour in the early 80s?

[Slow Learner]

Michael Gove is in the running now. Boris just got backstabbed.

Corbyn refuses to resign, says no confidence vote has 'no constitutional legitimacy'

This is what happens when you let the Neo-Marxists into the party. They seize power and never let it go.

there is nothing neo-anything about Corbyn and he has not made significant changes to the party rulebook either, the procedure is for a challenger to, you know, challenge the incumbent. if the PLP want him out that badly they should've pulled their fingers out and nominated a challenger on monday morning rather than fartarsing about with a non-binding pantomime

Well, the militants almost took over the party in the early 80s, but yeah, I wouldn't place Corbyn at the same footing with them.

Nice choice of word.

BRTD isn't in here.

...don't tell me you don't know the name of the guy who led Labour in the early 80s?

Of course I do. Just making a wee joke is all.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Oh, sorry. The questioning emoji threw me off.

[Serenity Now]

Boris John won't be standing the the Conservative leadership. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120

Boris Johnson not being the next permanent leader of the Conservative Party is actually a bigger surprise to me than the UK voting to leave the European Union (although they're both directly related).

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I could see an "Alliance" between anti-Corbyn Labour and the LibDems but I doubt the LibDems would get to be dominant.

I very much doubt that too. They can, if such split occurs, become the "official opposition" for duration of this parliament, but breaking "two dominant party system" is extremely hard.

The 80s SDP-Liberal alliance was at one point supposed not only to overtake badly battered Labour as the official opposition, but they actually led Tories for a time. But, for receiving only marginally less votes than Labour (25.4% to 27.6%), they won a small number of seats (23 to 209). Just like the UKIP last election: significant support nationwide, and mere one seat, because the support was spread across the country, and there was no machine to actually compete in constituencies.

In this regard the UK is bit like the US. Instead of electoral college, you have winner-takes-all constituencies. You can lose the PV and get a majority (like Churchill in 1951, or plurality like Wilson in February 1974). Similarly, you can perform great in the PV and be a toast in actual number of seats.

[Blair]

Again I'll ask, as I did in another thread: What, at this point, does Corbyn hope to accomplish by staying on? I understand that he believes himself to have his own mandate from the membership that he considers more important than the good graces of the PLP, but what does he hope to accomplish now? Does he care about the good graces of the people who elected the PLP, of whom there are thirty-seven times more than voted for him for leader? Does he expect the former Shadow Cabinet to come crawling back if/when he wins another leadership election? Does he think Labour can actually win a general election with a parliamentary party that despises its leader and a latter-day 'Who? Who?' ministry filled with nobodies, a ministry that he can't even fill because he has so few remaining allies?

Well the optimist says that he's wanting to resign- I've heard rumors that he wants to quit, and that some of his allies agree but Seamus Milne (the much hated spin doctor) is convincing him to stay.

Most likely Clive Lewis or JM are trying to get the 37 signatures needed to get on the ballot.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Corbyn refuses to resign, says no confidence vote has 'no constitutional legitimacy'

This is what happens when you let the Neo-Marxists into the party. They seize power and never let it go.

there is nothing neo-anything about Corbyn and he has not made significant changes to the party rulebook either, the procedure is for a challenger to, you know, challenge the incumbent. if the PLP want him out that badly they should've pulled their fingers out and nominated a challenger on monday morning rather than fartarsing about with a non-binding pantomime

Well, the militants almost took over the party in the early 80s, but yeah, I wouldn't place Corbyn at the same footing with them.

Nice choice of word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km2D1tTSARQ

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Again I'll ask, as I did in another thread: What, at this point, does Corbyn hope to accomplish by staying on? I understand that he believes himself to have his own mandate from the membership that he considers more important than the good graces of the PLP, but what does he hope to accomplish now? Does he care about the good graces of the people who elected the PLP, of whom there are thirty-seven times more than voted for him for leader? Does he expect the former Shadow Cabinet to come crawling back if/when he wins another leadership election? Does he think Labour can actually win a general election with a parliamentary party that despises its leader and a latter-day 'Who? Who?' ministry filled with nobodies, a ministry that he can't even fill because he has so few remaining allies?

Well the optimist says that he's wanting to resign- I've heard rumors that he wants to quit, and that some of his allies agree but Seamus Milne (the much hated spin doctor) is convincing him to stay.

Most likely Clive Lewis or JM are trying to get the 37 signatures needed to get on the ballot.

Wait, signatures for Corbyn or for themselves? Isn't Corbyn's position that he doesn't need signatures?

[Gass3268]

Again I'll ask, as I did in another thread: What, at this point, does Corbyn hope to accomplish by staying on? I understand that he believes himself to have his own mandate from the membership that he considers more important than the good graces of the PLP, but what does he hope to accomplish now? Does he care about the good graces of the people who elected the PLP, of whom there are thirty-seven times more than voted for him for leader? Does he expect the former Shadow Cabinet to come crawling back if/when he wins another leadership election? Does he think Labour can actually win a general election with a parliamentary party that despises its leader and a latter-day 'Who? Who?' ministry filled with nobodies, a ministry that he can't even fill because he has so few remaining allies?

Well the optimist says that he's wanting to resign- I've heard rumors that he wants to quit, and that some of his allies agree but Seamus Milne (the much hated spin doctor) is convincing him to stay.

Most likely Clive Lewis or JM are trying to get the 37 signatures needed to get on the ballot.

Wait, signatures for Corbyn or for themselves? Isn't Corbyn's position that he doesn't need signatures?

Depends who you ask.

[Silent Hunter]

Boris John won't be standing the the Conservative leadership. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120

Boris Johnson not being the next permanent leader of the Conservative Party is actually a bigger surprise to me than the UK voting to leave the European Union (although they're both directly related).

Theresa May is the favourite now; didn't think we'd get a second female PM that quickly...

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Heh. Before the referendum when I was convinced that Remain would narrowly win and Cameron would cling on, I believed that May would be the next PM. Ironically, in spite of everything, she has regained that position.

[The Free North]

Another ringing endorsement of sorts.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Devastating,

Change party name, date and faces, and this piece would be a fitting description of this situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr-Ia45UJ6Q

[2952-0-0]

So to sum up in the past week since the vote:

• Financial markets panic, but not quite at Lehman 2008 levels
• David Cameron resigns without keeping is promise to invoke Article 50
• Leave campaigners run around like headless chickens, unsure about the next steps
• Worse still, they immediately admit to lying about key promises
• Even worse still, they genuinely act as if the Empire is back
• Both major parties in Westminster in complete disarray
• Any residual pro-British sentiment in Scotland suffers a fatal blow
• Scotland openly talks with foreign powers against Westminster's wishes
• Irish reunification and Gibraltar retrocession suddenly aren't jokes
• Brussels humiliates the Leave campaigners by daring them to invoke Article 50
• In fact, Berlin and Paris barely contain their glee in dismembering the EU's drama queen

If you strip away the places and people, you'd think this is a collapsing third world banana republic whose banknotes have a suspicious number of zeros, and whose President is re-elected with numbers which are similar to FM radio stations.

But the United Kingdom? The birthplace of parliamentary democracy? Whose political class are educated at the world's finest schools? And whose civil service is professional, neutral, and resilient?

Really??

Really??

[Antonio the Sixth]

So to sum up in the past week since the vote:

• Financial markets panic, but not quite at Lehman 2008 levels
• David Cameron resigns without keeping is promise to invoke Article 50
• Leave campaigners run around like headless chickens, unsure about the next steps
• Worse still, they immediately admit to lying about key promises
• Even worse still, they genuinely act as if the Empire is back
• Both major parties in Westminster in complete disarray
• Any residual pro-British sentiment in Scotland suffers a fatal blow
• Scotland openly talks with foreign powers against Westminster's wishes
• Irish reunification and Gibraltar retrocession suddenly aren't jokes
• Brussels humiliates the Leave campaigners by daring them to invoke Article 50
• In fact, Berlin and Paris barely contain their glee in dismembering the EU's drama queen

If you strip away the places and people, you'd think this is a collapsing third world banana republic whose banknotes have a suspicious number of zeros, and whose President is re-elected with numbers which are similar to FM radio stations.

But the United Kingdom? The birthplace of parliamentary democracy? Whose political class are educated at the world's finest schools? And whose civil service is professional, neutral, and resilient?

Really??

Really??

I haven't seen it talked about much here, but isn't the number one culprit for this whole debacle really the Murdoch press? They really fueled the Leave campaign, and they're probably more trusted by voters than any Leave politician.

If so, it would be the ultimate evidence that Murdoch is behind nearly everything wrong with modern Britain.

[Silent Hunter]

Another ringing endorsement of sorts.

Agree. Corbyn hasn't done anything like enough to stop those who call people with legitimate concerns about him 'traitors', 'Red Tories' etc. Or subject a Jewish MP to anti-Semitic abuse at an event announcing a report on anti-Semitism.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Farage out. Anyone want to start a pool for when Corbyn falls?

[Slow Learner]

So to sum up in the past week since the vote:

• Financial markets panic, but not quite at Lehman 2008 levels
• David Cameron resigns without keeping is promise to invoke Article 50
• Leave campaigners run around like headless chickens, unsure about the next steps
• Worse still, they immediately admit to lying about key promises
• Even worse still, they genuinely act as if the Empire is back
• Both major parties in Westminster in complete disarray
• Any residual pro-British sentiment in Scotland suffers a fatal blow
• Scotland openly talks with foreign powers against Westminster's wishes
• Irish reunification and Gibraltar retrocession suddenly aren't jokes
• Brussels humiliates the Leave campaigners by daring them to invoke Article 50
• In fact, Berlin and Paris barely contain their glee in dismembering the EU's drama queen

It still is, fwiw. Sinn Fein calling for a border poll isn't anything new.