UK General Discussion Thread: mayy lmao

[IceAgeComing]

There's lots of incredibly concerning stuff in the Investigatory Powers Bill which isn't much better than the earlier versions and I'm incredibly disappointed that Labour seem to be supporting it.  Possibly the worst part of it is the requirement that back doors be inserted into methods of communication that are currently encrypted so the government can access them: and also would make it a crime punishable by prison to reveal the existence of those back doors regardless of who you are talking to or the circumstances.  This could lead to things like WhatsApp and iMessage not being available legally in the UK since I can't imagine Apple or Facebook putting weaknesses in their software just to cater for some draconian UK legislation.  There's also the usual bulk collection and secret courts stuff but sadly it shouldn't be too surprising that is contained in the bill...  All in all, not a great piece of legislation!

Also apparently Jeremy Corbyn didn't bow enough at the Cenotaph, according to some old Tory Home Secretary.  I'm disappointed but not overly surprised that someone has decided to politicise what should be a somber occasion...

[IceAgeComing]

Could have been worse guys, apparently George Galloway's been planning to rejoin.

They've already said they won't let him back in: he's as hated by the Left as he is by everyone else.  The only person that I've ever met who liked Galloway was also an SWP member, that should demonstrate that he was a bit of an idiot.

Just caught the end of a Newsnight piece on Conservative Future, what on earth happened there?

[IceAgeComing]

I can't link anything but the news is everywhere anyway: Junior Doctors in England have voted to strike with 98% voting for full strike action and 99.2% supporting some form of industrial action that wasn't a strike on a 75% turnout.  Surely that must be some form of record?

[IceAgeComing]

They were tied in that ICM poll that the company themselves decided to rubbish as soon as they published it - this is admittedly more significant because Yougov has changed their methodology while ICM hasn't quite yet.  Wonder if this is actually a significant move or whether its just noise: we'll have to wait and see.  I'd imagine that most of the field work was pre-budget, although I doubt that's going to be a big impact since most of the press attention on that seems to have been focused on the disability cuts which will probably hurt the government.

[IceAgeComing]

if you look at it from the perspective of creating a good criminal justice system then yes it is.  If you look at it through the eyes of them yet again starting the piecemeal privatisation of a public service then no, it isn't mental, its very obvious what they are trying to do.

[IceAgeComing]

I think that this is more likely to be a mixture of Tory power games and wanting to put the boot in Osborne rather than some recently found conscience over recent disability cuts, although I'd really like to be wrong.  There's also the fact that they're having to release the internal reviews of the Universal Credit system which seems to have been a right mess, and that was IDS's main policy while he was at the DWP - I'd source that but I haven't enough posts to include links apparently.

Incidentally, apparently IDS's replacement (Stephen Crabb, was Welsh Secretary) has some connection to some weird Christian organisation that believes that LGBTQ people can be cured, which isn't great - again can't post links, apparently they paid him to intern in parliament and then after he became an MP provided him with interns.

[IceAgeComing]

They've moved the Scottish, Welsh and NI elections to avoid it, so there's definitely precedent for it.  The question is whether they see the London things as being merely Local elections so less in need of fixing the term length...

The most sensible thing to do would be to change Westminster to four year terms, its a much better term length.  Sure the Euros would be a bit odd and would clash with Westminster every twenty years, but honestly that doesn't really matter, I don't see the issue with the European elections actually getting a good turnout every so often...

[IceAgeComing]

If he wanted to do that then Gove would be the one to endorse since he's more likely to win

[IceAgeComing]

according to eye-witnesses the attacker shouted "Britain First!" during the attack - for non-UK people, Britain First are a neo-nazi political "party" that have a very active social media presence and that favours more direct forms of activism - they're the group that did that Mosque invasion stuff and other odd things.  They also recently hosted an "activist training camp" which taught people, amongst other things, how to use knives.  This is obviously not very good if this is the reason behind this.  Later reports are all saying that she was the one being targeted; and that someone else tried to intervene.

Recent update on her condition was that she was in a "life-threatening" condition.

[IceAgeComing]

Sickening

[IceAgeComing]

I mean that was pretty obvious, someone expecting and hoping to win wouldn't concede within fifteen minutes of the polls closing like Farage did...

[IceAgeComing]

so Brexit has one good thing coming for it then

[IceAgeComing]

government has lost the Article 50 case; so at the moment any triggering of it has to be approved by parliament.  They've appealed the judgement to the Supreme Court who should rule in December; although if its anything like this case we should have an idea what direction they are heading in.

A good thing IMO: any precedent that would increase royal prerogative powers is IMO a bad thing.

[IceAgeComing]

that's hardly shocking; that's how long it took to get CETA through; and also as long as TTIP was going to take.

[IceAgeComing]

The Tories want to bring a voter ID law. Currently 7.5% of the population don't have an photo ID.

So gerrymandering, individual registration and now voter ID. Anybody noticing some sort of theme?

Er they aren't gerrymandering. Labour seats particularly those in Wales tend to be grossly undersized and the current boundaries are based on old data so there needs to be some change. It's the boundary commission that has proposed some new horrendous constituencies not the Tories.

As for photo ID it is probably strongly supported by the public as a whole. It is quite easy in Britain to walk into the polling station and pretend to be anyone. If this is introduced the government will be pressurised to make access to id easier. However it is not the in person vote but instead the postal vote where the strongest most credible allegations of electoral fraud happen particularly in Labour areas with large Muslim populations such as Tower Hamlets, Nelson, Halifax, parts of Birmingham etc. for example fake voters on the rolls and 'community leaders' filling out everyone's ballots for them or heavily controlling how the members of their community vote. That's the part of the voting process which needs tightening up the most.

I'm always sceptical when one party decides by themselves to change anything involving the electoral process; especially when conveniently its likely to benefit them - which is definately the case with the boundary changes.  A big part of the reason why the commission has come out with a load of awful seats is because they don't really have any choice: the 5% threshold is well too inflexible to allow for .  I'd have supported a reform that equalised Wales with the rest of the UK - I'd even support a reduction of the size of the House, but I do think that the Commission needs flexibility to add a few MPs if it leads to people being better represented - there's no real difference in cost between 600 MPs and 603, but the latter might lead to a few of the awful boundaries being replaced by good ones.  The bit that I oppose most is the whole 5% threshold thing: 10% would be so much better and allow the Commission to draw better seats.  There's also the fact that the current review was conveniently started on an older register right after individual registration was brought in rather than a newer one that was available; which would represent traditional Labour areas better.

How many cases of impersonation were there at the last General Election?  I can guarantee that the number will be incredibly low, certainly less than the number of legitimate voters that an ID law would stop voting.  I don't think that voter ID is necessary and I'd only ever support it if appropriate ID was provided to everyone in the UK free of charge: but that's not what they are proposing so it needs to be opposed.  You've correctly identified several areas where we need to enforce current laws better and make sure that everyone has a free right to vote: but ID laws aren't ever going to stop that: especially since the community that you've identified are generally pretty likely to have forms of ID.

[IceAgeComing]

Well the proposed seats only are awful because the commission has this silly thing about not splitting local government wards even where the wards are stupidly large like in Birmingham. Of course the government is pushing for some of these changes for partisan reasons as did Labour when they were in government e.g. their refusal to reduce Welsh representation despite the setting up of the Welsh Assembly. The ability of governments to bend the rules slightly in their favour is not a fault of any specific party but a fault of the system which needs to be fixed.

I personally am not a big fan of ID because as you say the areas where fraud is worst won't be fixed by ID. However if it were introduced the government would be pressured into making voter ID free and accessible to all, to not do this would cause a serious and unwanted backlash (they remember the Poll Tax all too well). I personally doubt it will be introduced anyway, the Tories are very good at messaging and PR and have a habit of floating popular but badly thought through ideas like this one and then scrapping them a few months later (see grammar schools) typically to distract from something else, unpopular or controversial, that they're doing at the same time e.g. Brexit, NHS reforms etc..

The Welsh Assembly didn't have primary legislative power until 2011 (I think; that's when the referendum was at least); I'd argue that meant that they were entitled to the extra seats in 2010 at least.  Certainly that seems to have been the government position; they removed the extra Scottish seats after all...

Plus its not like state governments in America that have introduced voter IDs have been "pressured" into making ID easer to get; indeed several have introduced voter ID and in the same bill have made getting the required ID harder to get.  Saying "well if x happens y will definately happen!!!" is silly since usually y doesn't happen, especially if it would hurt the governing party...

[IceAgeComing]

This is cheap. I am cheap. I laughed.

ahahaha

[IceAgeComing]

They don't seem to have an enactment clause in that bill which is odd; normally even if there is to be no delay between royal assent and the bill coming into force you have a "this act will come into force immediately" clause.

That thing about Labour whips whipping for while voting against is really silly since it'll be very clear how they've voted in any division and they'd have to resign then.

[IceAgeComing]

I think that he'll win that vote: most of the opposition parties will probably whip against a vote of no confidence since a lot of his changes have benefitted them; which means that every Tory would have to vote against him and I can't see that happening.  It'd be awful if that happened though; I don't think that the government should use their majority to remove a speaker for making sure that they actually have to defend themselves in front of the House relatively often - yeah sure technically this is for the Trump thing; but they've wanted to do it for years.  The Trump thing was totally the right thing to say but he perhaps could have worded it differently in order to prevent something like this from happening...

[IceAgeComing]

The student loan company also get very annoying when you're working outside the UK: when I told them I had a traineeship in Brussels they kept on trying to take money out of my (empty) UK account even though I continually told them and provided them with proof of the fact that my income was below the statutory minimum, and that technically my income wasn't really a "wage" but a "scholarship" (I think that's a thing that's used in a few traineeships so they can get around some laws regarding social security payments and the like).  I think the fact that my Strasbourg expenses technically put me above the limits by like £20 for a month confused them a bit: eventually we worked out that didn't count (even though I'm pretty sure I gained a hundred quid from the deal, since its the EU and they don't ask for receipts and such pay a fixed amount to everyone, apparently it actually works out cheaper than policing everyone strictly considering the fact that they send tonnes of people there every month) and I was good - luckily the attempts to take money out just failed, if I'd gone overdrawn then getting the money back with enough to cover the fees wouldn't have been an interesting experience...