Which Dakota is More Conservative?
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  Which Dakota is More Conservative?
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Poll
Question: Both Red States
#1
North
 
#2
South
 
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Total Voters: 65

Author Topic: Which Dakota is More Conservative?  (Read 5067 times)
Free Bird
TheHawk
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« on: May 11, 2015, 01:48:40 PM »

Hard to say
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CrabCake
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 01:49:34 PM »

Historically, certainly South.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2015, 03:58:14 PM »

North Dakota has been more Republican. I don't think we can find many differences between the north and south when it comes to conservatism.


Can you explain?
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SATW
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2015, 04:19:07 PM »

Look at the current Pols from both. SD is easily more right-wing.

Thune and Rounds are much more conservative then Hoeven and Keitkamp.
Daaugard seems more right-wing then Dalrymple.
Noem is, easily, more right-wing the Cramer.

North Dakota seems more economically populist, but I could be wrong. Especially with ND now becoming a petro-like state, I could see ND trending more right on economics.

I think, though, that ND is more Republican.
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King
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2015, 04:29:42 PM »

North fiscally, South socially.
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darthebearnc
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2015, 04:59:29 PM »

North fiscally, South socially.

Sounds about right.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2015, 05:01:01 PM »

North fiscally, South socially.

South Dakota is more fiscally conservative.  Socially, it's hard to tell.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2015, 05:21:04 PM »


So North Dakota is Western Ukraine, and South Dakota is Eastern Ukraine.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2015, 05:45:22 PM »

Obviously North Dakota.  How is this even a question?

South Dakota has the biggest urban center in the Dakotas so it has more liberals and it has a lot more Native Americans who vote Democrat reliably.  Looking at the politicians at the moment is pretty silly anyway.  A few years ago, all the members of Congress from the Dakotas were Democrats, right?  After Herseth won?

The bigger divide though is the Eastern Dakotas, east of the Missouri River and the Western Dakotas, West of the Missouri River.  The Eastern Dakotas are more midwestern, the Western Dakotas are more West/Great Plains.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2015, 06:45:19 PM »

Obviously North Dakota.  How is this even a question?

South Dakota has the biggest urban center in the Dakotas so it has more liberals and it has a lot more Native Americans who vote Democrat reliably.  Looking at the politicians at the moment is pretty silly anyway.  A few years ago, all the members of Congress from the Dakotas were Democrats, right?  After Herseth won?

The bigger divide though is the Eastern Dakotas, east of the Missouri River and the Western Dakotas, West of the Missouri River.  The Eastern Dakotas are more midwestern, the Western Dakotas are more West/Great Plains.

If it were East and West Dakota instead of North and South, does Obama win East Dakota in 2008 under a scenario that splits the population roughly evenly?
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publicunofficial
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2015, 06:48:29 PM »

South Dakota has a lot of conservative Republicans, but historically also progressive liberals. See George McGovern
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bedstuy
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2015, 06:58:54 PM »

Obviously North Dakota.  How is this even a question?

South Dakota has the biggest urban center in the Dakotas so it has more liberals and it has a lot more Native Americans who vote Democrat reliably.  Looking at the politicians at the moment is pretty silly anyway.  A few years ago, all the members of Congress from the Dakotas were Democrats, right?  After Herseth won?

The bigger divide though is the Eastern Dakotas, east of the Missouri River and the Western Dakotas, West of the Missouri River.  The Eastern Dakotas are more midwestern, the Western Dakotas are more West/Great Plains.

If it were East and West Dakota instead of North and South, does Obama win East Dakota in 2008 under a scenario that splits the population roughly evenly?

I have no clue, but probably not.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2015, 07:19:51 PM »

Obviously North Dakota.  How is this even a question?

South Dakota has the biggest urban center in the Dakotas so it has more liberals and it has a lot more Native Americans who vote Democrat reliably.  Looking at the politicians at the moment is pretty silly anyway.  A few years ago, all the members of Congress from the Dakotas were Democrats, right?  After Herseth won?

The bigger divide though is the Eastern Dakotas, east of the Missouri River and the Western Dakotas, West of the Missouri River.  The Eastern Dakotas are more midwestern, the Western Dakotas are more West/Great Plains.

If it were East and West Dakota instead of North and South, does Obama win East Dakota in 2008 under a scenario that splits the population roughly evenly?

Possibly.  Obama lost South Dakota east of the Missouri by 3%, but to divide evenly by population, eastern South Dakota would be just east of the James River. Obama might have won that.  Possibly eastern North Dakota too.



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cinyc
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2015, 08:38:51 PM »
« Edited: May 11, 2015, 08:41:31 PM by cinyc »

Obviously North Dakota.  How is this even a question?

South Dakota has the biggest urban center in the Dakotas so it has more liberals and it has a lot more Native Americans who vote Democrat reliably.  Looking at the politicians at the moment is pretty silly anyway.  A few years ago, all the members of Congress from the Dakotas were Democrats, right?  After Herseth won?

Sioux Falls, SD might be larger than Fargo, ND, but Fargo is slightly more liberal than Sioux Falls.  Romney only won Fargo's Cass County by a little less than 3.  He won the county that Sioux Falls is mainly in, Minnehaha, by about 7.  Fargo also is smaller than Sioux Falls because some of its in-state population lives in neighboring West Fargo, while Sioux Falls sprawls across the Lincoln County line and doesn't have a major neighboring suburb with a population over 10,000.  Fargo is also closer to the state line, and some of the Fargo metro's population is in Minnesota.  The two metro areas are about the same size, anyway, with the Sioux Falls metro only about 20,000 people larger than Fargo-Moorhead metro.

Fargo is home to one of North Dakota's major state universities, North Dakota State.  Sioux Falls is not home to a major state university.  The major South Dakota universities are in smaller towns, like Vermillion and Brookings.
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jfern
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« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2015, 05:51:30 AM »

South Dakota, definitely. They seem to pass crazier laws, their Indians are worse off, and North Dakota has a state bank and no voter registration.
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VPH
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2015, 11:56:39 AM »

South Dakota!! ND has a state owned grain mill, a state bank, no voter registration, a border with Manitoba. ND's Republicans tend to run a bit more populist economically.
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2015, 12:18:34 PM »

North fiscally, South socially.
Switch that around and you'd be closer.  South Dakota has a more detailed individualist streak owing to its gold mining past.  It also has a more diverse settlement resulting in more divisions.

North Dakota is very very homogenous and communitarian. 
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Torie
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2015, 12:57:54 PM »

These days, probably ND, due to the oil patch zone in the NW corner of the state, which is having a substantial demographic impact on the state.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2015, 01:11:11 PM »

Didn't North Dakota expand Medicare?
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snowguy716
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« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2015, 01:52:42 PM »

These days, probably ND, due to the oil patch zone in the NW corner of the state, which is having a substantial demographic impact on the state.
Several thousand roughnecks from Texas is still a small impact on a state steeped in a very specific, homogenous, and exclusive culture.

You will find upon close inspection that North Dakotans want those Ausländer weg so bald wie möglich!  Why?  They are the actual definition of xenoPHOBIC.  They are scared of outsiders changing their culture.
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Tutankhuman Bakari Sellers
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« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2015, 05:16:40 PM »
« Edited: May 13, 2015, 05:20:55 PM by OC »

North Dakota, based purely on trade.

Earl Pomeroy, Dorgan, and Conrad; all wanted Normal Trade Relations NTR with China.  Daschle, like Sandler, and Johnson were soft on NTR and Conrad and Dorgan were there longer. Both Dakotas are trading partners with China, based on farming.
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« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2015, 02:32:50 AM »

I'd say North Dakota is more socially conservative. Didn't South Dakota voters reject an anti-abortion bill in 2006; meanwhile, North Dakota has the highest per capita of churches and religious adherents in the country.

Their presidential election results, however, are almost indistinguishable.

2012
North Dakota: Romney 58.32 - Obama 38.69 = R+ 19.63
South Dakota: Romney 57.89 - Obama 39.87 = R+ 18.02

2008
North Dakota: McCain 53.15 - Obama 44.50 = R+ 8.65
South Dakota: McCain 53.16 - Obama 44.75 = R+ 8.41

2004
North Dakota: Bush 62.86 - Kerry 35.50 = R+ 27.36
South Dakota: Bush 59.91 - Kerry 38.44 = R+ 21.47

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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2015, 05:52:22 PM »

South Dakota, definitely. They seem to pass crazier laws, their Indians are worse off, and North Dakota has a state bank and no voter registration.

lol at this being a trait of conservatism.
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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2015, 06:24:24 PM »

The Nonpartisan League's brief rule of North Dakota was perhaps the most radical state government in the history of the US. In addition to the aforementioned nationalised bank and mill, they also banned corperate owned farmland; a quirk which still survives to this day. It also lacks a death penalty, one of the few western states to do so. Perhaps it's the strong Lutheran influence, that gives it quite a populist streak, while keeping that small government social conservatism.

Of course in recent years, it has become more dependent on shale and fossil fuels (and wind energy, but to a lesser extent than, say, Iowa). I can see why: it's not really a touristy place as it lacks the "major attractions" of its Southern neigbour (As much as I think the Rushmore and Crazy Horse are tacky monuments to the vanity of humanity, they do bring in foot traffic), so environmentalists are in awkward territory. I think it uses its oil royalties for a Norwegian-style fund, but it's very easy to catch Dutch disease (especially when conservatives sniff round and decide to dip into oil revenues for general revenue, as they are currently trying to do to the actual Norwegian fund)
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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2015, 08:31:57 PM »

The Nonpartisan League's brief rule of North Dakota was perhaps the most radical state government in the history of the US. In addition to the aforementioned nationalised bank and mill, they also banned corperate owned farmland; a quirk which still survives to this day. It also lacks a death penalty, one of the few western states to do so. Perhaps it's the strong Lutheran influence, that gives it quite a populist streak, while keeping that small government social conservatism.

Of course in recent years, it has become more dependent on shale and fossil fuels (and wind energy, but to a lesser extent than, say, Iowa). I can see why: it's not really a touristy place as it lacks the "major attractions" of its Southern neigbour (As much as I think the Rushmore and Crazy Horse are tacky monuments to the vanity of humanity, they do bring in foot traffic), so environmentalists are in awkward territory. I think it uses its oil royalties for a Norwegian-style fund, but it's very easy to catch Dutch disease (especially when conservatives sniff round and decide to dip into oil revenues for general revenue, as they are currently trying to do to the actual Norwegian fund)

SD ended capital punishment around the same time as ND, but in the 1930s they decided they missed it and reinstated it, only to use it once between then and 2007. 
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