Are female Democrats held to higher ideological standards than male Democrats?
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  Are female Democrats held to higher ideological standards than male Democrats?
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Author Topic: Are female Democrats held to higher ideological standards than male Democrats?  (Read 1316 times)
IceSpear
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« on: May 11, 2015, 04:09:20 PM »

Some examples:

1) Arkansas conservadem Blanche Lincoln gets a fierce primary. Arkansas conservadem Mark Pryor gets to skate through without even token opposition.

2) West Virginia conservadem Joe Manchin throwing Obama under the bus is A-OK, he's just doing what he has to do to win. West Virginia conservadem Natalie Tennant throwing Obama under the bus is unforgivable, and the DNC should pull all support for her campaign.

3) Kentucky Democrat Jack Conway distances himself from Obama, but he needs to do that to win in such a red state. Kentucky Democrat Alison Lundergan Grimes distances herself from Obama, and she is bashed for it, with many people even saying she lost because she didn't embrace Obama.

4) Despite being similar on 90% of issues, Hillary Clinton gets tagged as the center-right neoliberal whereas Barack Obama gets tagged as the left wing savior.

Discuss.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 04:18:42 PM »

Yes. Christine Quinn is another example, not that I'm a fan of hers.
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darthebearnc
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2015, 04:59:55 PM »

Very insightful.
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TNF
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2015, 10:36:07 AM »

The idea that Democrats have ideological standards is cute.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2015, 10:43:58 AM »

To be fair, Allison Grimes would have lost anyway. Mitch McConnell ran as a presidential caliber campaign in Kentucky.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2015, 01:38:48 PM »

Our society is sexist in general.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2015, 03:09:54 PM »
« Edited: May 12, 2015, 03:15:11 PM by L.D. Smith, Knight of Appalachia »

While I admit I hadn't really though much of it until now, such a conclusion makes a disturbing amount of sense considering:

- The Ron Paul-esque worship Elizabeth Warren gets and the draft to get her to challenge Clinton from the left even though she's declined,...while Bernie Sanders actually is running and is unambiguously more liberal than Warren, but where's his following?

- All those polls flaunted about how women are supposed to be more liberal and Democratic than men. And they are really supposed to like Obama.

Take these into account, and it's obvious that Conservadem women fly straight in the face of that. And regrettably, this gets voters and the media up in arms, even if the reality seemingly requires them and actions such as distancing from Obama.



But to be fair with Manchin, he ran in a Presidential year, which is obviously very different from a  midterm.

Our society is sexist in general.

And this is an excellent short answer.
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Thunderbird is the word
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 04:00:03 PM »

Some examples:

1) Arkansas conservadem Blanche Lincoln gets a fierce primary. Arkansas conservadem Mark Pryor gets to skate through without even token opposition.

2) West Virginia conservadem Joe Manchin throwing Obama under the bus is A-OK, he's just doing what he has to do to win. West Virginia conservadem Natalie Tennant throwing Obama under the bus is unforgivable, and the DNC should pull all support for her campaign.

3) Kentucky Democrat Jack Conway distances himself from Obama, but he needs to do that to win in such a red state. Kentucky Democrat Alison Lundergan Grimes distances herself from Obama, and she is bashed for it, with many people even saying she lost because she didn't embrace Obama.

4) Despite being similar on 90% of issues, Hillary Clinton gets tagged as the center-right neoliberal whereas Barack Obama gets tagged as the left wing savior.

Discuss.

1. Best argument there I think is that progressive Democrats had given up on Arkansas as a lost cause to a greater extent in 2014 then 2010.

2. You might have a point here.

3. Yeah I agree that was disingenuous, I don't think that had to do with why she lost.

4. Can't speak for others but I'm pretty equally critical of both of them. I've never singled Hillary out in my criticisms of her, I think they apply to most of the modern party.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2015, 04:33:19 PM »

The idea that Democrats have ideological standards is cute.

Roll Eyes
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IceSpear
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2015, 04:34:01 PM »

While I admit I hadn't really though much of it until now, such a conclusion makes a disturbing amount of sense considering:

- The Ron Paul-esque worship Elizabeth Warren gets and the draft to get her to challenge Clinton from the left even though she's declined,...while Bernie Sanders actually is running and is unambiguously more liberal than Warren, but where's his following?

- All those polls flaunted about how women are supposed to be more liberal and Democratic than men. And they are really supposed to like Obama.

Take these into account, and it's obvious that Conservadem women fly straight in the face of that. And regrettably, this gets voters and the media up in arms, even if the reality seemingly requires them and actions such as distancing from Obama.



But to be fair with Manchin, he ran in a Presidential year, which is obviously very different from a  midterm.

Our society is sexist in general.

And this is an excellent short answer.

That's actually a good point, about how women are "supposed" to be more liberal than men which could somewhat explain the higher standard. It could also explain why far right Republican women such as Palin, Bachmann, etc. are targeted more often than far right Republican men are.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2015, 04:39:13 PM »

Some examples:

1) Arkansas conservadem Blanche Lincoln gets a fierce primary. Arkansas conservadem Mark Pryor gets to skate through without even token opposition.

2) West Virginia conservadem Joe Manchin throwing Obama under the bus is A-OK, he's just doing what he has to do to win. West Virginia conservadem Natalie Tennant throwing Obama under the bus is unforgivable, and the DNC should pull all support for her campaign.

3) Kentucky Democrat Jack Conway distances himself from Obama, but he needs to do that to win in such a red state. Kentucky Democrat Alison Lundergan Grimes distances herself from Obama, and she is bashed for it, with many people even saying she lost because she didn't embrace Obama.

4) Despite being similar on 90% of issues, Hillary Clinton gets tagged as the center-right neoliberal whereas Barack Obama gets tagged as the left wing savior.

Discuss.

1. Best argument there I think is that progressive Democrats had given up on Arkansas as a lost cause to a greater extent in 2014 then 2010.

2. You might have a point here.

3. Yeah I agree that was disingenuous, I don't think that had to do with why she lost.

4. Can't speak for others but I'm pretty equally critical of both of them. I've never singled Hillary out in my criticisms of her, I think they apply to most of the modern party.

Fair enough on point 1. Although there was a lot of hate for Pryor, it never reached the level of vitriol directed at Lincoln. Another plausible explanation could be that Democrats were riding high on top of the world after 2008, basking in their "permanent majority" and thinking they had the luxury to primary Lincoln, but were taught a lesson from their thumping in 2010.
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Beet
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2015, 06:54:52 PM »

Marie Antoinette syndrome. Conservatism with a feminine face is particularly offensive to the left because women are also seen as beneficiaries of benevolent sexism, the prime example being the spoiled Marie Antoinette, whose luxuries were seen as the most pure form of monarchical decadence and frivolity, the greatest contrast to the fate of the commoners. It's more offensive for Hillary to vote for the Iraq war because she's a woman, sending mostly men to die. The fact that men die to protect women in wars is another expression of benevolent sexism.

The irony is that the worst brunt of it falls on left-of-center women, since women like Palin and Bachmann can thrive without any support from leftist men, but Democratic women find it hard to win without progressive support. For feminists, the answer is that benevolent sexism is not a privilege at all but a pedestal, a sort of prison with golden bars.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2015, 08:00:36 PM »


2) West Virginia conservadem Joe Manchin throwing Obama under the bus is A-OK, he's just doing what he has to do to win. West Virginia conservadem Natalie Tennant throwing Obama under the bus is unforgivable, and the DNC should pull all support for her campaign.


what? nobody likes joe manchin
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angus
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2015, 08:20:45 AM »

Are female Democrats held to higher ideological standards than male Democrats?

Possibly, but you're cherrypicking.  Also, your examples don't really make the point.  

Blanche Lincoln is a staunch Free Trader, known for publicly opposing a number of progressive initiatives including a public medical insurance option and the pro-union Employee Free Choice Act.  Obama had become very unpopular in Arkansas by the time she ran for re-election in 2010, so even her pandering to the conservative Democrats didn't help her survive the challenge from Boozman.

Natalie Tennant seeking to distance herself from Obama in 2014 should not come as a surprise.  Nor should her defeat at the hands of Capito (a female, by the way.)  Comparing her in this regard to Manchin is not really appropriate since he was up for re-election in a presidential election year.  Turnout is higher in 2012 than in 2014, and the more gritty voters are better represented.  Also, she was running for election in 2014, whereas Manchin was running for re-election in 2012.  Not really an apples-to-apples comparison.

Grimes won more than 3/4 of the primary vote in her bid for the nomination to replace McConnel, so at best she is an exact counterexample of what you're trying to point out.

The anti-war left has good reason not to get excited about Hillary Clinton, a power projectionist from 1998 onwards.  Clinton has plenty of neoliberal credentials, and this should not be surprising since she learned from her husband, an expert at triangulation.  Obama, on the other hand, has pursued a rather progressive agenda.  (Of course, he also supports the sort of post-apocalyptic Orwellian society being espoused by Democrats and Republicans, but his left-wing critics haven't given him a pass.  You'll find plenty of outrage on the internet regarding his drone policy, for example.)  

There are also a number of counterexamples who show that conservative female democrats have done just fine.  Ann Richards not only defeated her primary opponents in 1990, but went on to become governor of Texas from 1990 till 1994.  The Blue Dog Coalition has had a number of successful housemembers over the past several decades who are female.  The current governor of New Hampshire is a female Democrat who has transformed from a tax-and-spend legislator into a fiscally conservative budget hawk.  This will earn her criticism from the left, but not because she is a female.  I'm sure you could compile a long list of successful conservative female democrats.  In fact, the first female Governor in any state was a conservative Democrat, as was the second, who served for two terms.  
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TDAS04
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2015, 10:19:00 AM »

Our society is sexist in general.

Unfortunately true. 
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angus
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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2015, 10:23:29 AM »


Indeed, like all societies and at all levels.  And not just human ones.  I don't think anyone is arguing either for or against this point, and it is a broad topic far beyond the scope of the thread.  The OP makes a very specific argument and then tries to support it using specific examples.  In my humble opinion, the examples do not support the argument.

I think it's probably true that female conservative democrats are held to the fire in a way that female conservative republicans are not, and in a way that male conservative democrats are not.  This is neither bad nor good, by the way, and I think the reasons for this phenomenon are almost, but not quite, explained by Beet--who goes a bit over the top in his wild comparison to Marie Antoinette. 
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