Monopolies to Break Up?
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  Monopolies to Break Up?
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Author Topic: Monopolies to Break Up?  (Read 2829 times)
Free Bird
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« on: May 12, 2015, 08:28:02 AM »

Which ones should we pull a TR on to encourage real competition, lower prices, and raise wages?
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Gass3268
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2015, 09:02:41 AM »

The major banks would be a good place to start. Comcast is getting pretty close too.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2015, 09:51:09 AM »

Sirius XM monopoly of satellite radio
Fair Isaac monopoly of credit scoring services
Monsanto monopoly of herbicides and seeds and such
Clear Channel near-monopoly of domestic FM radio

oligopoly of movie studios
oligopoly control of TV, internet, and media
oligopoly of cell phone service providers
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TNF
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2015, 10:03:19 AM »

Why would we want to turn the clock back? The solution to monopoly is to put those industries that have managed to make it to the top of the capitalist food chain is not to break them up (and risk destroying jobs and undermining the rationalization and centralization of production), but to bring them into public ownership. Monopoly in and of itself is not bad, but monopolies controlled by private capitalists are because they have an interest in fleecing the public.

Under public ownership (combined, of course, with democratic control of these industries by the public, organized into workers' councils), Sirius XM might be made ubiquitous. Every car and home in America could have access to a variety of programming currently off limits to them, and the superior mode of transmitting those signals could allow us to phase out dilapidated radio infrastructure. Likewise, public ownership of Monsanto would give us the ability to radically alter the way we produce food. We are already well aware of the benefits that GM crops can bring, but under capitalist production, they're not going to be put to good use. We could grow better food for more people, and we could break the stranglehold of corn production on our diets and take steps toward curbing the obesity epidemic.

Public ownership of movie studios would mean an end to the dictation of what we see in the theaters by a small clique of owners, and allow for better films to be made because it would open up the industry to democratic input. Same goes for television, of course. The Internet under public ownership would bring us faster speeds (as is the case in Chattanooga, home of the country's fastest broadband network, which is of course, municipally owned) and would guarantee network neutrality. We could guarantee an Internet free from censorship or state monitoring of every little thing we do if we owned the Internet and exercised democratic control of it.

As for cell phone service providers, public ownership would mean the right of everyone to communicate without data caps and without intrusive contract agreements. I think that the best way to go forward is not to break up those industries which have an overbearing presence on the lot of us under capitalism, but to make those industries work for us, by allowing us to take ownership of them and manage them in a democratic fashion.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2015, 11:23:21 AM »

Why would we want to turn the clock back?

There's something hilariously ironic about a post starting with this sentence and then advocating antiquated economics like nationalization.
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2015, 11:40:58 AM »

POTUS. Wouldn't it be more efficient if we had three Presidnts competing amongst each other in order to be in full control of the country? They could all have their own cabinets and militaries, and they could constantly compete to be the better leader.
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Murica!
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2015, 11:44:59 AM »

POTUS. Wouldn't it be more efficient if we had three Presidnts competing amongst each other in order to be in full control of the country? They could all have their own cabinets and militaries, and they could constantly compete to be the better leader.
LET TEH FREE MARKET DECIDE!
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 11:54:21 AM »

Note that you can't just a break up a monopoly because it's a monopoly. Being a monopoly isn't illegal (IIRC we came close to passing legislation in the 70s that would have made it illegal, but Congress never did). The firm needs to be engaging in some sort of unfair anti-competitive conduct. And even when the government wins a monopoly case, the monopoly isn't usually broken up these days (for instance the Microsoft case from 2001).
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CrabCake
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2015, 12:22:15 PM »

The houses on Baltic Avenue should be sold off, and the dark green properties redistributed amongst all players. Then we execute the banker.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2015, 01:02:31 PM »

Energy is a monopoly, but there isn't any legal action that could actually be taken that could change that.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2015, 01:28:32 PM »

Why would we want to turn the clock back?

There's something hilariously ironic about a post starting with this sentence and then advocating antiquated economics like nationalization.

what makes it "antiquated"?  is it because it hasn't been done in the Global North since Thatcher/Reagan?
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TNF
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2015, 01:46:23 PM »

Why would we want to turn the clock back?

There's something hilariously ironic about a post starting with this sentence and then advocating antiquated economics like nationalization.

But I'm not advocating for the old line type of nationalization that allows the decisions of the nationalized industry to be made by government planners or hired capitalist managers, so the assertion that what I'm advocating is 'antiquated' is incorrect. I want public ownership of industry, yes, but unless its combined with democratic control by the workers of those industries, it's going to inevitably run into the same issues that bureaucratized state industry did during the last century.
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ag
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« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2015, 02:17:49 PM »

Why would we want to turn the clock back? The solution to monopoly is to put those industries that have managed to make it to the top of the capitalist food chain is not to break them up (and risk destroying jobs and undermining the rationalization and centralization of production), but to bring them into public ownership. Monopoly in and of itself is not bad, but monopolies controlled by private capitalists are because they have an interest in fleecing the public.



Private monopolies may be bad, because they have an interest in fleecing the public. Public monopolies are much worse, though, because they have an interest in raping the public.
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ag
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« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2015, 02:19:17 PM »

Why would we want to turn the clock back?

There's something hilariously ironic about a post starting with this sentence and then advocating antiquated economics like nationalization.

But I'm not advocating for the old line type of nationalization that allows the decisions of the nationalized industry to be made by government planners or hired capitalist managers, so the assertion that what I'm advocating is 'antiquated' is incorrect. I want public ownership of industry, yes, but unless its combined with democratic control by the workers of those industries, it's going to inevitably run into the same issues that bureaucratized state industry did during the last century.

Democratic control of a monopoly by the workers means maximizing rent extraction from the population, while neglecting efficiency. This is, probably, the single worst way of screwing the society at large so far invented.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2015, 03:19:11 PM »
« Edited: May 12, 2015, 03:21:46 PM by The Mikado »

Why would we want to turn the clock back?

There's something hilariously ironic about a post starting with this sentence and then advocating antiquated economics like nationalization.

what makes it "antiquated"?  is it because it hasn't been done in the Global North since Thatcher/Reagan?

Do you have another word for a technique discarded for over a third of a century that isn't antiquated?

EDIT: Perhaps "Old-school" or "retro" would work. Get your bell bottoms and disco gear back, nationalization has returned.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2015, 04:24:27 PM »

let the states decide
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2015, 05:16:23 PM »

Comcast already controls over 50% of the high-speed Internet market in the U.S., and it faces no competition in a large number of markets. It was a blessing that the government shot down its merger with Time Warner, but we need to take things a step further given its utility status.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2015, 05:24:15 PM »

Also airlines, intercity bus travel (Greyhound), oil companies, and retail (Walmart).

I don't understand why the states don't break up monopolies. There's 50 states, and not a single one is breaking up monopolies?
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2015, 05:25:40 PM »

Fair Isaac monopoly of credit scoring services

The system of credit scoring should be outlawed, period.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2015, 05:28:33 PM »

Note that you can't just a break up a monopoly because it's a monopoly. Being a monopoly isn't illegal (IIRC we came close to passing legislation in the 70s that would have made it illegal, but Congress never did).

Maybe it's time for an executive order.
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t_host1
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« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2015, 06:02:58 PM »

 
 I hope that the initiative of the atlas “after dark” failsafe forum does not have any effect on these well-established allowances of reasoning monopolies. It would be such a tragic loss for the understanding of present day issues.
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Murica!
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« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2015, 06:14:38 PM »


 I hope that the initiative of the atlas “after dark” failsafe forum does not have any effect on these well-established allowances of reasoning monopolies. It would be such a tragic loss for the understanding of present day issues.
THE MIGHTY JAO HAS SPOKEN!
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ag
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« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2015, 06:56:13 PM »


 I hope that the initiative of the atlas “after dark” failsafe forum does not have any effect on these well-established allowances of reasoning monopolies. It would be such a tragic loss for the understanding of present day issues.

Would you mind translating this into English?
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2015, 08:54:29 PM »

Private monopolies may be bad, because they have an interest in fleecing the public. Public monopolies are much worse, though, because they have an interest in raping the public.

This.

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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2015, 09:18:10 PM »

Also airlines, intercity bus travel (Greyhound), oil companies, and retail (Walmart).

I don't understand why the states don't break up monopolies. There's 50 states, and not a single one is breaking up monopolies?
You realize that monopolies generally cross state lines, and therefore an individual state would have little power to do anything about it, right?

Then what's the point of even having states?

Some of these companies cross national lines too, but it used to be that this didn't stop the federal government from regulating them.
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