BREAKING: Boston Bomber sentenced to death
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  BREAKING: Boston Bomber sentenced to death
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Author Topic: BREAKING: Boston Bomber sentenced to death  (Read 7381 times)
RFayette
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« Reply #75 on: May 16, 2015, 08:14:17 AM »

Using the Bible as a citation for specific morals is a flawed way to think anyway, but sadly it's what millions in this country are going to do anyway.

Of course, I don't base my view on the Bible, but as a Christian, it does matter to me from a personal standpoint, and I respect others for whom it is significant.

(Response was intended for RFayette regarding the issue of the death penalty not being called out. I don't even want to get into the issue of abortion which has even less to take from the Bible. Taking the moral perspective of one time period is a horrendous way to rationalize a current policy.)

Let me clarify.  My position on the death penalty is not because of what the Bible says about the subject.  I was just pointing out to Turk that one could just as easily make a pro-death penalty case from the Bible as an anti-death penalty case.  This link sheds further light on a pro-death penalty Biblical position.
http://www.gotquestions.org/death-penalty.html

Personally, I favor the death penalty largely because it serves as an unambiguous moral judgment on the utter depravity of an act that far exceeds a typical murder case.

I do believe states like TX overuse the death penalty.  I think it should only be used when there is more than one murder (and I would probably set the bar at at least 3) or the 1 murder was so heinous/torture-filled that it demonstrates true callousness


One thing I will say about the incrementalism argument for prison inmates:  the incrementalism argument is great if we're talking about the federal court system, because lifers have to spend their whole time in an utterly-awful supermax and thus have nothing to lose by killing someone (though unlikely given their limited human contact) whereas a state prison inmate often starts out in "maximum security" but not supermax (so 16 hr/day confinement instead of 23 hr/day, maybe) and even has the chance to work their way down, whereas a BOP inmate is likely stuck at supermax for a very very long time. 

In this case, the incrementalism argument is good because people who did far less still get LWOP in a supermax prison, so the only more severe punishment is death; the fact that there were 2 separate heinous crimes being committed makes this that kind of case, IMO.
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politicallefty
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« Reply #76 on: May 16, 2015, 11:09:13 AM »

I've already mentioned before that I believe the appropriate punishment was life without parole at ADX Florence. I don't feel at all comfortable with this decision at all. I think this was something the whole world was watching and, as someone who has a principled stance against capital punishment, I think it makes this country look very backwards. It is entirely unnecessary and based out of nothing more than vengeance.

I say it is based out of vengeance based on the way the way the system works. The people of Boston and of Massachusetts as a whole do not support capital punishment. According to polling, even fewer than those that support the death penalty support its utilization in this case (I think the numbers were 30% in support of capital punishment and 19% wanted it applied in this case). Jury selection in death penalty cases is stacked against the defendant no matter what. Even the family that lost their 8-year-old son went out of their way to write in opposition to a death sentence. Their 'closure' in this case required a life sentence, not the death penalty. My sympathies in this case lie only with the victims and their families, but that does not mean I support the government taking any more lives when it is completely unnecessary.
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CountryClassSF
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« Reply #77 on: May 16, 2015, 05:02:25 PM »

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Thankfully, our justice system doesn't work based on public opinion polls.  But since you brought it up, nationally, folks support death penalty for Tsarnaev by a wide margin.  This is, after all, a federal case.
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ingemann
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« Reply #78 on: May 16, 2015, 05:10:53 PM »

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Thankfully, our justice system doesn't work based on public opinion polls.  But since you brought it up, nationally, folks support death penalty for Tsarnaev by a wide margin.  This is, after all, a federal case.

Honestly as much I'm against the death penalty, I think the jury did its job. There was no doubt he did it, and ... well if you have the death penalty and this guy doesn't get it, it would be quite unfair to give it to anybody else.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #79 on: May 17, 2015, 11:07:26 AM »

To those who say 'we're ridding the world of evil!!' I have to ask why? My personal ethical and moral opposition to the death penalty aside, I have to ask why. Why the death penalty when he'll never ever get out of that prison in Colorado to hurt someone ever gain. What does this seek to achieve  other than creating a martyr to be held in high regard. You're giving him the short end of the stick.

I won't get into a huge debate because this is one of the few political issues where I form my opinion largely with my "gut" more than with cold, hard logic, but I will at least give you the courtesy of a response: there are certain people who have so disrespected others' lives that I think they need to lose the very thing they took.  I know, I know, the prison might be worse than death, he'll likely never escape and it really doesn't do anyone "any good" to execute him ... but I do not think he deserves to even inhale another breath or have another thought; I don't think he deserves one more second of being conscious or  sentient.

I'm sure that sounds ridiculous to many, but that's how I feel.

The bolded part is basically an admission that you just want the death penalty implemented to satisfy your own bloodlust.  You do realize that, right?
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #80 on: May 17, 2015, 02:22:28 PM »

To those who say 'we're ridding the world of evil!!' I have to ask why? My personal ethical and moral opposition to the death penalty aside, I have to ask why. Why the death penalty when he'll never ever get out of that prison in Colorado to hurt someone ever gain. What does this seek to achieve  other than creating a martyr to be held in high regard. You're giving him the short end of the stick.

I won't get into a huge debate because this is one of the few political issues where I form my opinion largely with my "gut" more than with cold, hard logic, but I will at least give you the courtesy of a response: there are certain people who have so disrespected others' lives that I think they need to lose the very thing they took.  I know, I know, the prison might be worse than death, he'll likely never escape and it really doesn't do anyone "any good" to execute him ... but I do not think he deserves to even inhale another breath or have another thought; I don't think he deserves one more second of being conscious or  sentient.

I'm sure that sounds ridiculous to many, but that's how I feel.

The bolded part is basically an admission that you just want the death penalty implemented to satisfy your own bloodlust.  You do realize that, right?


I think I did a pretty good job of explaining why I still want it in the following sentences, and "bloodlust" certainly wasn't the takeaway a rational, unbiased reader would take away from it.  If you want to mock me or twist my words to help your political narrative, whatever; I really don't care.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #81 on: May 17, 2015, 03:06:32 PM »

To those who say 'we're ridding the world of evil!!' I have to ask why? My personal ethical and moral opposition to the death penalty aside, I have to ask why. Why the death penalty when he'll never ever get out of that prison in Colorado to hurt someone ever gain. What does this seek to achieve  other than creating a martyr to be held in high regard. You're giving him the short end of the stick.

I won't get into a huge debate because this is one of the few political issues where I form my opinion largely with my "gut" more than with cold, hard logic, but I will at least give you the courtesy of a response: there are certain people who have so disrespected others' lives that I think they need to lose the very thing they took.  I know, I know, the prison might be worse than death, he'll likely never escape and it really doesn't do anyone "any good" to execute him ... but I do not think he deserves to even inhale another breath or have another thought; I don't think he deserves one more second of being conscious or  sentient.

I'm sure that sounds ridiculous to many, but that's how I feel.

The bolded part is basically an admission that you just want the death penalty implemented to satisfy your own bloodlust.  You do realize that, right?


I think I did a pretty good job of explaining why I still want it in the following sentences, and "bloodlust" certainly wasn't the takeaway a rational, unbiased reader would take away from it.  If you want to mock me or twist my words to help your political narrative, whatever; I really don't care.

Could you try again then?  It sure sounded like what you said in the following sentences was essentially that it'd make you feel better if the guy were dead.  That's not a good reason to execute someone.
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SATW
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« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2015, 04:22:37 PM »

if people think they are better then me for opposing the death penalty, fine, think that way. I do not care. However, I will continue to support the death penalty, and I believe, especially in this case, that justice has been served.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #83 on: May 17, 2015, 06:49:55 PM »

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snowguy716
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« Reply #84 on: May 17, 2015, 11:29:52 PM »

I'm sure the jury drawn from the citizens of the city that Tsarnaev bombed was the picture of objectivity and dispassion in coming to this decision.
Indeed.

This was nothing but a show trial.  Sadly, Lynch's comments disgusted me the most.  Trotting the dead out like a briefcase of fine silverware for sale to drum up sympathy for the victims.... I can't help but wonder how the families really feel deep down about seeing their loved ones used in a mediatized version of "OH NO HE DIDNENT".

The worst part is how we're all so personally offended by what happened as if it were your family member that lost a leg.  Yet you'll be suuuuper pissed off tomorrow when you realize your partner used up all but a mouthful of milk and put the carton back in the fridge.  You'll be more concerned about your tutti fruities than the victims in Boston.  Maybe while you eat your dry breakfast cereal you can feed it with the milk of justice that has been served to Tsarnaev!

My Great Uncle was drafted to Vietnam and had to leave his very best friend in the world behind when a shell blew his legs off as they were running across an opening.  Both were drafted.  His bleeding out friend had to beg my great uncle to leave him so he wouldn't die too.  When he came home after that tour, his wife had left him for another man.

Now he's suffering the complications of agent orange.

I'm not sure if you've ever seen blood pouring out of someone you love as you panic without any idea what to do about it. I'd think if you had, your response here might be more like "just effing stop the cycle of killing and retribution.  It really really really is not worth it.  Just STAHP!" 

Yet it doesn't.  And it wont.  Cuz sewious people demand sewious justice for "serious" crimes...

Amtrak sees hundreds of millions in funding cut right as a train goes off the track which could have been prevented with adequate funding for safety features that would have slowed the train down automatically.

We're droning to death entire families and extended families and you people have no time to read about that...

The common theme here is that Tsarnaev killed 3...and the state killed or will kill 2 plus take actions that lead to the unjust, unmerciful, unnecessary, and plain unforgivable deaths of probably people you know and love.  Then some useless accuser will come out of the wood work backed up by the authority of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA with a scape goat...and trot out your dead loved ones as an excuse to kill (excuse me...serve justice to) even more.

The world is completely f**ked...


But Dhzokar Tsarnaev dun gon fry!  Halleluia!  The world is AAAAAAALRIGHT.

Just please take a moment to try mercy or be the better person by taking a first step to ending this senseless killing...especially now, when killing seems so right.

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BRTD
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« Reply #85 on: May 17, 2015, 11:35:21 PM »

Tsarnaev is also white.

Anyway wrong decision, but considering the federal death penalty's track record, the odds he's actually executed are about the same as Bushie finding a job in the next month and holding it for the rest of 2015.
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ag
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« Reply #86 on: May 17, 2015, 11:36:19 PM »


Is he? Definitely, not in Russia.

The broader question is, could a Muslim be white in the US today?
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BRTD
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« Reply #87 on: May 17, 2015, 11:47:01 PM »

He's Caucasian. Literally.

Is the woman featured in this video not white? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfx4glTU5JQ
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Donerail
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« Reply #88 on: May 17, 2015, 11:49:32 PM »


Is she white by a Census Bureau definition? Sure. Culturally, in post-9/11 America? Certainly not. She's part of the vaguely threatening and poorly-understood 'Other'.
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ag
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« Reply #89 on: May 18, 2015, 12:02:26 AM »
« Edited: May 18, 2015, 12:03:59 AM by ag »


What does that have to do with being "white"? And she, obviously, is a Muslim.

BTW, in Russia "Caucasian" is the definition of being "black".
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Ebsy
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« Reply #90 on: May 18, 2015, 12:23:00 AM »


What does that have to do with being "white"? And she, obviously, is a Muslim.

BTW, in Russia "Caucasian" is the definition of being "black".
We don't live in Russia, thankfully.
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ag
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« Reply #91 on: May 18, 2015, 12:29:58 AM »


What does that have to do with being "white"? And she, obviously, is a Muslim.

BTW, in Russia "Caucasian" is the definition of being "black".
We don't live in Russia, thankfully.

But that still does not answer the question.
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Slander and/or Libel
Figs
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« Reply #92 on: May 18, 2015, 08:02:40 AM »

There is literally no legitimate reason not to kill him.

This is basically the grossest post I've seen on this board in a long time. Especially from a self-professed Christian.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
The Obamanation
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« Reply #93 on: May 18, 2015, 09:59:21 AM »


So... Is your point that the Chechen guy should live or that the white guy should die?
I would like to know your point too.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #94 on: May 18, 2015, 10:30:00 AM »


So... Is your point that the Chechen guy should live or that the white guy should die?
I would like to know your point too.

Merely pointing out inconsistencies with the death penalty.
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #95 on: May 18, 2015, 11:21:53 AM »


So... Is your point that the Chechen guy should live or that the white guy should die?
I would like to know your point too.

Merely pointing out inconsistencies with the death penalty.

The second to least meme is literally an argument for why he shouldn't have been kept alive, LOL.
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Figs
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« Reply #96 on: May 18, 2015, 11:23:23 AM »

It's an argument for why he shouldn't have been allowed to distribute materials from prison.
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #97 on: May 18, 2015, 11:32:58 AM »

It's almost as if wartime collaborators seeking to follow up on an attack that killed 3000 civilians are treated more harshly than freelance terrorists.

As I recall, the evidence against Rudolph was a lot less clear-cut and the investigation had been bungled previously, giving him a good number of openings at trial to poke holes in the government's case. Given that, it made a lot more sense to offer him a plea and ensure that he went away forever. No one was finding Tsarnaev innocent.
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Figs
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« Reply #98 on: May 18, 2015, 11:34:05 AM »

It's almost as if wartime collaborators seeking to follow up on an attack that killed 3000 civilians are treated more harshly than freelance terrorists.

As I recall, the evidence against Rudolph was a lot less clear-cut and the investigation had been bungled previously, giving him a good number of openings at trial to poke holes in the government's case. Given that, it made a lot more sense to offer him a plea and ensure that he went away forever. No one was finding Tsarnaev innocent.

Nobody's saying Tsarnaev was innocent.
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #99 on: May 18, 2015, 11:53:51 AM »

It's almost as if wartime collaborators seeking to follow up on an attack that killed 3000 civilians are treated more harshly than freelance terrorists.

As I recall, the evidence against Rudolph was a lot less clear-cut and the investigation had been bungled previously, giving him a good number of openings at trial to poke holes in the government's case. Given that, it made a lot more sense to offer him a plea and ensure that he went away forever. No one was finding Tsarnaev innocent.


Nobody's saying Tsarnaev was innocent.

No, what I'm saying is that the reason he didn't get offered a plea deal compared to Rudolph is because the government was far more confident in their ability to get a conviction.
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