269-269 EC with 50-50 Senate

[Slander and/or Libel]

I think it would get pretty knotty with the acting president/president thing, but I think it seems clear that the Act intends that there remain some fundamental distinction between the Presideny and the person carrying out the duties of the President, but not the President.

Other question I just thought of: if the Speaker of the House becomes Acting President, is he still Speaker, carrying out the duties of both offices? What if the House votes him out as Speaker? Does he cease to be Acting President?

[Slander and/or Libel]

The other thing I just thought of is that a Speaker/Acting President could short circuit the 25th amendment by just not appointing a VP, right?

[SteveRogers]

I think it would get pretty knotty with the acting president/president thing, but I think it seems clear that the Act intends that there remain some fundamental distinction between the Presideny and the person carrying out the duties of the President, but not the President.

Other question I just thought of: if the Speaker of the House becomes Acting President, is he still Speaker, carrying out the duties of both offices? What if the House votes him out as Speaker? Does he cease to be Acting President?

The Presidential Succession Act actually says that the Speaker has to resign from their position as Speaker and as a member of congress in order to become acting president.  Otherwise you'd obviously have a separation of powers problem.

The other thing I just thought of is that a Speaker/Acting President could short circuit the 25th amendment by just not appointing a VP, right?

Yeah, they could avoid the whole issue by just never nominating a VP.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Oh, I'd missed that part. So...have we been missing a way to force out an unwanted speaker, by having the president and vice president declare themselves incapable of carrying out the duties of the office to force the speaker into resigning and becoming acting president for like 10 minutes at which point the president and vice president recover?

[SteveRogers]

Oh, I'd missed that part. So...have we been missing a way to force out an unwanted speaker, by having the president and vice president declare themselves incapable of carrying out the duties of the office to force the speaker into resigning and becoming acting president for like 10 minutes at which point the president and vice president recover?

Well I think the Speaker could just refuse to resign and then the baton would pass to the Senate President pro tempore

[Slander and/or Libel]

I guess there's some ambiguity in there to me. The relevant text:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

(a)(1) says "the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, upon his resignation as Speaker and as Representative in Congress, act as President."

(b) says "If...when...a Speaker is to begin the discharge of the powers and duties of the office of President...the Speaker fails to qualify..."

So I guess my questions are these:

1) Is there specific legal guidance about the meaning of the word "shall" here? Is it meant to signal that the Speaker is compelled to become Acting President, and consequently must resign? "Shall" in (a)(1) comes before the bits about resignation, after all, and it's "shall," not "if he chooses to resign."

2) Under subsection (b), would a Speaker's refusal to resign count as failure to qualify? I suppose this goes back to whether the language of (a)(1) makes acceptance of the office compulsory, and resignation a part of what goes along with that.

[SteveRogers]

Well you're right that under the most literal reading of the statute, "shall" means that the speaker has to do it. But I can't see the courts upholding an act that requires a member of congress to resign absent the two-thirds vote the constitution requires in order to expel a member, and I'm fairly certain the courts would hold that congress couldn't have intended the act to compel a person to serve as president against their will.

And if the speaker refuses to resign, then I think that obviously counts as failure to qualify.

Obviously there's no case law interpreting the act, so this is all just my speculation on how the act could be most reasonably interpreted under such circumstances.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Well you're right that under the most literal reading of the statute, "shall" means that the speaker has to do it. But I can't see the courts upholding an act that requires a member of congress to resign absent the two-thirds vote the constitution requires in order to expel a member, and I'm fairly certain the courts would hold that congress couldn't have intended the act to compel a person to serve as president against their will.

And if the speaker refuses to resign, then I think that obviously counts as failure to qualify.

Obviously there's no case law interpreting the act, so this is all just my speculation on how the act could be most reasonably interpreted under such circumstances.

Yeah, I agree with just about all of what you said. Obviously it's never going to happen. I just think the language of the thing is a bit sloppy and I was interested in ripping open some of those holes and seeing what they could imply.