Is Protectionism ever appropriate?
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  Is Protectionism ever appropriate?
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Poll
Question: Protectionism
#1
Yes, most domestic industries should be protected
 
#2
Only for infant industries
 
#3
Only to restrict trade from countries with looser regulations on labour etc
 
#4
Only 'essential industries' should be protected
 
#5
no, free trade is always the best solution
 
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Total Voters: 48

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Author Topic: Is Protectionism ever appropriate?  (Read 961 times)
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CrabCake
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« on: May 18, 2015, 05:48:48 AM »

I lean towards the last option, although I support anti-dumping laws and some kind of multilateral framework on worker's rights and environmental law, with sanctions for those countries who oppose joining.
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TNF
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2015, 08:17:00 AM »

The state should have a monopoly on all foreign trade.
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AggregateDemand
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2015, 09:15:24 AM »

Infant industry and critical national defense
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Murica!
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2015, 09:16:28 AM »

The stateTrade Unions should have a monopoly on all foreign trade.
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2015, 10:58:52 AM »

2&3 (Infant industries and worker's rights)
Otherwise free trade is ok.
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Türkisblau
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2015, 11:05:36 AM »

Option 1
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2015, 11:11:43 AM »

Infant industry and critical national defense
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ingemann
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2015, 03:20:07 PM »

2&3 (Infant industries and worker's rights)
Otherwise free trade is ok.

So free trade are okay with no other countries?
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2015, 04:34:48 PM »

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Boston Bread
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2015, 04:39:12 PM »

So free trade are okay with no other countries?
What do you mean? In general I support free trade but I support protectionism against countries with bad human rights, labor, and environmental records and to protect infant industries from competition, if you were wondering what I meant.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2015, 06:33:27 PM »

theyre takin our jerbs
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2015, 09:49:42 PM »

Options 2 and 4 (ignoring the double usage of "Only").
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Sumner 1868
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2015, 12:56:25 AM »

Option 1. Impose moderate tariffs on all imported industrial goods.
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TNF
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2015, 08:06:05 AM »

Yes, when a nation is industrializing, its's infant industries need protection. However, after they have been established, free trade benefits everyone.

yeah, it sure has benefited those industrial workers who went from making $25/hour+benefits to making $7.25/hour part-time with no benefits at McDonald's amirite
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Türkisblau
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2015, 09:10:50 AM »

Yes, when a nation is industrializing, its's infant industries need protection. However, after they have been established, free trade benefits everyone.

yeah, it sure has benefited those industrial workers who went from making $25/hour+benefits to making $7.25/hour part-time with no benefits at McDonald's amirite

No, we just have to act as if everything is alright and that if you just get one more job then you can have your ends meet. Suburban kids talking about how "free trade benefits everyone" is extremely laughable.
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ingemann
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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2015, 09:14:27 AM »

So free trade are okay with no other countries?
What do you mean? In general I support free trade but I support protectionism against countries with bad human rights, labor, and environmental records and to protect infant industries from competition, if you were wondering what I meant.

Okay so only free trade with developing economies are bad. Well I'm not always a fan of free trade (of much the same reasons), but I'm less of a fan of keeping people in permanent poverty because they're unable to develop. Free trade agreements have moved millions out of poverty and resulted in improvements on all those areas you mentioned, when their economy developed.
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ingemann
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« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2015, 09:19:37 AM »

Yes, when a nation is industrializing, its's infant industries need protection. However, after they have been established, free trade benefits everyone.

yeah, it sure has benefited those industrial workers who went from making $25/hour+benefits to making $7.25/hour part-time with no benefits at McDonald's amirite

No, we just have to act as if everything is alright and that if you just get one more job then you can have your ends meet. Suburban kids talking about how "free trade benefits everyone" is extremely laughable.

It doesn't benefit everyones, but the disappearance of the well off industrial worker are not a unique American phenomen, and many countries have avoided similar impoverishment. The low paid service workers are a result of the expansion of the supply of unskilled workers rather than a result of outsourcing.
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JonathanSwift
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« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2015, 11:23:11 AM »

Option #1.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2015, 01:47:54 PM »

Very strange to see the infant industry argument is so popular here. I voted "no" although the question's quite broad even with the options provided. Is infant industry the moderate hero option?

Yes, when a nation is industrializing, its's infant industries need protection. However, after they have been established, free trade benefits everyone.

yeah, it sure has benefited those industrial workers who went from making $25/hour+benefits to making $7.25/hour part-time with no benefits at McDonald's amirite

No, we just have to act as if everything is alright and that if you just get one more job then you can have your ends meet. Suburban kids talking about how "free trade benefits everyone" is extremely laughable.

?

When people say "free trade benefits everyone" they mean that the net benefit to society (at home and abroad!) is far greater than than the loss, which has been historically pretty well supported by the evidence. Most people in the United States are far better off as a result of free trade, even if some industries suffer.

In any event, the idea that trade has been primarily responsible for the decline in US manufacturing is a canard. If you're looking for something to blame, blame productivity gains and start smashing automated assembly lines with a hammer.

Matt Yglesias, who has in fact jumped on the anti-TTIP bandwagon, literally published something on this very topic yesterday. Manufacturing output is actually at its highest level ever, which means that protectionism would be of zero use (and massively harmful given that manufacturing goods are primarily exported) to the "industrial worker" forced into a less attractive job. Yglesias provides this convenient chart c/o Pew:



So free trade are okay with no other countries?
What do you mean? In general I support free trade but I support protectionism against countries with bad human rights, labor, and environmental records and to protect infant industries from competition, if you were wondering what I meant.

Trade is the most efficient way to get said countries to improve their record in all aspects listed. Unless you'd prefer that people in those countries suffer unemployment in addition to the poor human and labour rights and a bad environment.

In summary,

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RINO Tom
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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2015, 02:14:58 PM »

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SWE
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« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2015, 02:16:15 PM »

Option 5
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2015, 02:43:19 PM »

Obviously I support free trade, since I am on the left and protectionism is a right-wing idea. I'm not unsympathetic to the infant industries argument, but that doesn't apply to developed countries.
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2015, 02:49:35 PM »

I don't see pressure on developing countries to improve their labour and environmental record through free trade at all. But tariffs high enough to the point where I'd be cheaper for countries to adopt those standards might. Decent labour and environment standards needn't result in high unemployment - hiring people for higher wages will result in more disposable income which boosts demand, and shorter hours would allow more people to be hired in place of people who work overtime constantly. Products which are cheap because they were created without regard for labour or the environment shouldn't deserve to compete with products which are, because it gives them an unfair advantage in the market. Plus, I wouldn't mind slightly more revenue, especially at the expense of business practices which shouldn't really exist in the first place.

One point I wanted to make is that if I had an identical product at an identical price, one from overseas and one produced locally was available, I'd always chose the local option since all things being equal, lower transport distances is better for the environment.

I don't blame free trade for "taking our jerbs". But that's how I justify my positions on free trade.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2015, 07:14:59 PM »

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