Why is SSM such a big deal?

[CountryClassSF]

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Many have openly admitted to a goal of theirs which is to make it socially unacceptable to voice a different opinion.  And they have done so successfully - atleast where I live. Cannot be open about any conservative beliefs or you risk losing your job.  We need an ENDA for conservatives.

[YaBoyNY]

A CEO was forced out of his job for the "crime" of engaging in the political process by donating to the campaign for California's Proposition 8.   Bakers are being forced to bake cakes with messages in support of something they vehemently disagree with.   Some "progressives" label anyone who has legitimate religious objections to gay marriage as "bigots" and "haters", instead of engaging in debate, and try to ruin opponents' lives and job prospects. 

If you don't see that as gun pointing by SSM proponents, I don't know what to tell you.  If you dare disagree with SSM, you are evil incarnate to "progressives".

That's because there's no such thing as a legitimate religious objection to gay marriage.

It's 2015. Religion should evolve alongside people. Also, because this is a secular nation, run on, wait for it, secular values, prohibiting or denying SSM on religious grounds would be going against separation of church and state.

You're more than welcome to move to someplace like Iran though if you want a country run on religious grounds.

[Maxwell]

That seems to be the new Republican talking point on the issue.

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

AggregateDemand and CountryClassSF are trolls.  They shouldn't be engaged on this issue because they're just going to spout nonsense.

I am really sick of this nonsense of calling people who disagree with you trolls and/or putting them on ignore.  Not everyone is a so-called "progressive" who wants to shove their viewpoint on gay marriage down everyone's throat, regardless of legitimate religious objections.  

I have not noticed any gun pointing myself by SSM proponents. Rather it has all been ballot box and court action, where SSM proponents having a very high batting average. Yes, I know, you don't really believe your own hyperbole, but I digress. I also haven't noticed the word "Hitler" bandied about much either, and you know the Hitler rule - you invoke his name inappropriately, and you automatically lose the argument out of the box.

A CEO was forced out of his job for the "crime" of engaging in the political process by donating to the campaign for California's Proposition 8.   Bakers are being forced to bake cakes with messages in support of something they vehemently disagree with.   Some "progressives" label anyone who has legitimate religious objections to gay marriage as "bigots" and "haters", instead of engaging in debate, and try to ruin opponents' lives and job prospects.  

If you don't see that as gun pointing by SSM proponents, I don't know what to tell you.  If you dare disagree with SSM, you are evil incarnate to "progressives".

Translation (1964):

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Insert Jim Crow, slavery, child labor, women's rights, religious freedoms, etc. into the blank. It's all the same terrible, bigoted, recycled, and archaic argument.

[CountryClassSF]

If Loving is the basis for same-gender marriage, then these marriages would've taken place after the ruling.

Make no mistake about it, any court decision imposing SSM is based on public opinion/wants vs rights. There's no ERA, there should be no federal mandate for SSM.

The judicial tyrant that struck Prop 8 down used the term "unconstitutional," yet there's nothing in the US constitution that guarantees same gender marriage, otherwise, we'd have had them since the country's inception.

Left unable to distinguish between a desire to change marriage and a civil right. I find it very sad -- because their next step will be restricting our free speech

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The judicial tyrant that struck Prop 8 down used the term "unconstitutional," yet there's nothing in the US constitution that guarantees same gender marriage, otherwise, we'd have had them since the country's inception.

The ninth amendment was added specifically to prevent such a narrow-minded view that only rights explicitly named are guaranteed by the constitution. I'll grant that at times the courts tend to be overly plastic in constitutional interpretation, but I'd much rather have that than rigid strict constructionism that blocks change.

[Joe Biden 2020]

A CEO was forced out of his job for the "crime" of engaging in the political process by donating to the campaign for California's Proposition 8.   Bakers are being forced to bake cakes with messages in support of something they vehemently disagree with.   Some "progressives" label anyone who has legitimate religious objections to gay marriage as "bigots" and "haters", instead of engaging in debate, and try to ruin opponents' lives and job prospects. 

If you don't see that as gun pointing by SSM proponents, I don't know what to tell you.  If you dare disagree with SSM, you are evil incarnate to "progressives".

That's because there's no such thing as a legitimate religious objection to gay marriage.

It's 2015. Religion should evolve alongside people. Also, because this is a secular nation, run on, wait for it, secular values, prohibiting or denying SSM on religious grounds would be going against separation of church and state.

You're more than welcome to move to someplace like Iran though if you want a country run on religious grounds.

Newsflash:  The Bible is not changing.  Religion should not get with the times.  It is time society stops trying to rip pages out of the Bible.  I sincerely hope the Supreme Court is smart and does NOT impose same-sex marriage in all 50 states.  It threatens America's churches, especially the most conservative ones.  It also threatens Christian schools.  Liberal progressives seriously want to see pastors thrown in jail for life for preaching against same sex marriage and they want to take away tax exempt status for those who refuse to go along with gay marriage.  The denominations who are allowing same sex marriage now are 100% WRONG on that issue.  The Bible clearly states Adam and Eve.  The Bible clearly prohibits a man sleeping with a man.  It is not a slippery slope to other forms of "marriage", but it is a slippery slope to which all voices of opposition will be discriminated against, by the loss of jobs, the loss of their business, imprisonment.

However, there is one thing that is an ABSOLUTE FACT that NO one can deny.  Jesus reigns.  What He says goes.  It doesn't matter if you're an atheist or a member of another religion.  What Jesus says goes.  He will stamp out ALL same sex relationships and marriages.  He will get rid of all sin.

Furthermore, the Bible clearly says no one is born gay.  Being gay is absolutely positively a choice.  The Bible is the rule book on all human life, so no one can legitimately deny its teachings.

Just because we Christians hate gay marriage does not mean we hate gay people or are bigots.  We love gays, but are just trying to uphold traditional, conservative values that liberal progressives are trying so hard to get rid of and replace.

Gay activists should not force everyone to accept their marriage.  They want open mindedness, so why aren't they open minded to conservative, Biblical values?

Sorry for the rant, but it is a topic I have come to the correct realization on.  Christianity reigns and gay marriage loses in eternity.  Pure and simple.

[YaBoyNY]

A CEO was forced out of his job for the "crime" of engaging in the political process by donating to the campaign for California's Proposition 8.   Bakers are being forced to bake cakes with messages in support of something they vehemently disagree with.   Some "progressives" label anyone who has legitimate religious objections to gay marriage as "bigots" and "haters", instead of engaging in debate, and try to ruin opponents' lives and job prospects. 

If you don't see that as gun pointing by SSM proponents, I don't know what to tell you.  If you dare disagree with SSM, you are evil incarnate to "progressives".

That's because there's no such thing as a legitimate religious objection to gay marriage.

It's 2015. Religion should evolve alongside people. Also, because this is a secular nation, run on, wait for it, secular values, prohibiting or denying SSM on religious grounds would be going against separation of church and state.

You're more than welcome to move to someplace like Iran though if you want a country run on religious grounds.

Newsflash:  The Bible is not changing.  Religion should not get with the times.  It is time society stops trying to rip pages out of the Bible.  I sincerely hope the Supreme Court is smart and does NOT impose same-sex marriage in all 50 states.  It threatens America's churches, especially the most conservative ones.  It also threatens Christian schools.  Liberal progressives seriously want to see pastors thrown in jail for life for preaching against same sex marriage and they want to take away tax exempt status for those who refuse to go along with gay marriage.  The denominations who are allowing same sex marriage now are 100% WRONG on that issue.  The Bible clearly states Adam and Eve.  The Bible clearly prohibits a man sleeping with a man.  It is not a slippery slope to other forms of "marriage", but it is a slippery slope to which all voices of opposition will be discriminated against, by the loss of jobs, the loss of their business, imprisonment.

However, there is one thing that is an ABSOLUTE FACT that NO one can deny.  Jesus reigns.  What He says goes.  It doesn't matter if you're an atheist or a member of another religion.  What Jesus says goes.  He will stamp out ALL same sex relationships and marriages.  He will get rid of all sin.

Furthermore, the Bible clearly says no one is born gay.  Being gay is absolutely positively a choice.  The Bible is the rule book on all human life, so no one can legitimately deny its teachings.

Just because we Christians hate gay marriage does not mean we hate gay people or are bigots.  We love gays, but are just trying to uphold traditional, conservative values that liberal progressives are trying so hard to get rid of and replace.

Gay activists should not force everyone to accept their marriage.  They want open mindedness, so why aren't they open minded to conservative, Biblical values?

Sorry for the rant, but it is a topic I have come to the correct realization on.  Christianity reigns and gay marriage loses in eternity.  Pure and simple.

Imagine if they really threw you in jail for this post.

I actually think that'd be hilarious.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Insert Jim Crow, slavery, child labor, women's rights, religious freedoms, etc. into the blank. It's all the same terrible, bigoted, recycled, and archaic argument.

It's hardly progressives that have been castigated in that way.  Every movement that thinks that their goals are so pure and obviously good that all opponents should be counted as "evil incarnate" has been so castigated. Some are more deserving of that castigation than others of course. When it comes to SSM, I think castigating proponents for seeking legalization and recognition of SSMs is not deserved (if anything, those blocking the change should be castigated), but when "progressives" seek to force private parties to provide services for SSMs, the castigation is fully deserved.

Example translation in another context: (Russia Today)

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[JerryArkansas]

A CEO was forced out of his job for the "crime" of engaging in the political process by donating to the campaign for California's Proposition 8.   Bakers are being forced to bake cakes with messages in support of something they vehemently disagree with.   Some "progressives" label anyone who has legitimate religious objections to gay marriage as "bigots" and "haters", instead of engaging in debate, and try to ruin opponents' lives and job prospects. 

If you don't see that as gun pointing by SSM proponents, I don't know what to tell you.  If you dare disagree with SSM, you are evil incarnate to "progressives".

That's because there's no such thing as a legitimate religious objection to gay marriage.

It's 2015. Religion should evolve alongside people. Also, because this is a secular nation, run on, wait for it, secular values, prohibiting or denying SSM on religious grounds would be going against separation of church and state.

You're more than welcome to move to someplace like Iran though if you want a country run on religious grounds.

Newsflash:  The Bible is not changing.  Religion should not get with the times.  It is time society stops trying to rip pages out of the Bible.  I sincerely hope the Supreme Court is smart and does NOT impose same-sex marriage in all 50 states.  It threatens America's churches, especially the most conservative ones.  It also threatens Christian schools.  Liberal progressives seriously want to see pastors thrown in jail for life for preaching against same sex marriage and they want to take away tax exempt status for those who refuse to go along with gay marriage.  The denominations who are allowing same sex marriage now are 100% WRONG on that issue.  The Bible clearly states Adam and Eve.  The Bible clearly prohibits a man sleeping with a man.  It is not a slippery slope to other forms of "marriage", but it is a slippery slope to which all voices of opposition will be discriminated against, by the loss of jobs, the loss of their business, imprisonment.

However, there is one thing that is an ABSOLUTE FACT that NO one can deny.  Jesus reigns.  What He says goes.  It doesn't matter if you're an atheist or a member of another religion.  What Jesus says goes.  He will stamp out ALL same sex relationships and marriages.  He will get rid of all sin.

Furthermore, the Bible clearly says no one is born gay.  Being gay is absolutely positively a choice.  The Bible is the rule book on all human life, so no one can legitimately deny its teachings.

Just because we Christians hate gay marriage does not mean we hate gay people or are bigots.  We love gays, but are just trying to uphold traditional, conservative values that liberal progressives are trying so hard to get rid of and replace.

Gay activists should not force everyone to accept their marriage.  They want open mindedness, so why aren't they open minded to conservative, Biblical values?

Sorry for the rant, but it is a topic I have come to the correct realization on.  Christianity reigns and gay marriage loses in eternity.  Pure and simple.

Bushie, what I just read was one of the stupidest arguments against Gay Marriage ever.  It's wrong 'cause the bible says so.  How is that argument even valid in today's world.  Also, please cite where the bible says that being gay is a choice.  If it was a choice, I would be straight.  I wouldn't want to be harassed, made fun of, beaten, even killed for this.  What we want is a more fair society, not one ruled by religious dogma.

[7,052,770]

Liberal progressives seriously want to see pastors thrown in jail for life for preaching against same sex marriage

Can you cite a single example of this?

Furthermore, the Bible clearly says no one is born gay. 

I've never even heard that in Mississippi. Which verse are you referring to?

[The Mikado]

Sorry for the rant, but it is a topic I have come to the correct realization on.  Christianity reigns and gay marriage loses in eternity.  Pure and simple.

Just a question, but how do you feel about legalized gambling like you have up in Oklahoma? That's pretty clearly a Biblically-defined sinful act that has proven very, very lucrative for the people at Winstar and the other big Oklahoma casinos.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Newsflash:  The Bible is not changing.  Religion should not get with the times.  It is time society Protestantism stops trying to rip pages out of the Bible.  I sincerely hope the Supreme Court Luther is smart and does NOT impose sola scriptura same-sex marriage in all 50 states.  It threatens America's Germany's churches, especially the most conservative ones.  It also threatens Christian schools.  Liberal progressives theologians seriously want to see pastors thrown in jail for life for preaching against same sex marriage Protestantism and they want to take away tax exempt status for those who refuse to go along with gay marriage Protestantism.  The denominations theologians who are allowing same sex marriage now are 100% WRONG on that issue.  The Bible clearly states Adam and Eve Peter is the Rock of the Church.  The Bible clearly prohibits a man sleeping with a man disobeying the Pope.  It is not a slippery slope to other forms of "marriage" "Christianity", but it is a slippery slope to which all voices of opposition will be discriminated against, by the loss of jobs, the loss of their business, imprisonment.

However, there is one thing that is an ABSOLUTE FACT that NO one can deny.  Jesus The Pope reigns.  What He says goes.  It doesn't matter if you're an atheist or a member of another religion.  What Jesus yhe Pope says goes.  He will stamp out ALL same sex relationships and marriages heretics.  He will get rid of all sin.

FTFY

[The Mikado]

I'm actually very interested in what Bushie has to say about gambling, because in many ways I myself feel that the gambling industry is fundamentally immoral and is a way of thieving from the poorly-educated and innumerate amongst us. I'm personally somewhat conflicted about gambling's legality because it's legalized predation among a vulnerable population. Also, gambling can easily lead to other morally corrupting crimes like rigging sporting matches, or forcing a desperate person in a large debt to look to crime to get out of debt. That said, I fall down on the side that casino gambling should be legal, if under strict state surveillance and regulation.

If I can hold my nose and say that I am...reluctantly...fine with gambling existing as a legal practice, surely people on the right can come to the same conclusion about same sex marriage.

[Nutmeg]

What Jesus says goes.  He will stamp out ALL same sex relationships and marriages.  He will get rid of all sin.

Furthermore, the Bible clearly says no one is born gay.  Being gay is absolutely positively a choice.  The Bible is the rule book on all human life, so no one can legitimately deny its teachings.

Wow, you really have a very simplistic, immature mindset.

1) The Bible is not the basis for our government. That is a fact. Which no one can deny. As you might say. That said,

2) My same-sex relationship is filled with Christ's love.

3) Jesus said nothing about homosexuality.

4) The Bible doesn't say anything about whether people are born gay. Stop making things up.

5) You are committing the sin of telling falsehoods, Bushie. And you also are committing blasphemy by using Jesus like a weapon against other people. Truly shameful behavior.

We love gays

Then be a compassionate human being and start acting like it. Because I sense nothing but hate from you.

[CountryClassSF]

Loving the individual / not loving what's been done to marriage.

Above poster is committing blasphemy. You claim that the Lord says nothing about homosexuality, but then you claim that your homosexual relationship is blessed by Christ.

[CountryClassSF]

Above poster is committing blasphemy. You claim that the Lord says nothing about homosexuality, but then you claim that your relationship is blessed by Christ.

I mean that we follow Christ's teachings (and I am an ordained reverend). Jesus and same-sex relationships are not incompatible.

I see. But where did Christ teach that homosexual activity was acceptable and encouraged?  I don't think they're incompatible either, but engaging in homosexual acts are a different story.

[CountryClassSF]

I see. But where did Christ teach that homosexual activity was acceptable and encouraged?  I don't think they're incompatible either, but engaging in homosexual acts are a different story.

Not sure what your point is. He didn't address the subject. Thus all we can do is to follow his teachings on all other subjects, such as being kind to one another and our fellow human beings. Pretty much trying to follow Matthew 7:12 in everything we do.

What about Lev 18:22? 1 Corinth 6:9? The Bible is the inspired word of God, if it's said by an Apostle, we're supposed to just disregard it if we feel like it? What about "pride"?

If God "made" you and I gay, don't you think this would be part of the Word?

[Nutmeg]

I see. But where did Christ teach that homosexual activity was acceptable and encouraged?  I don't think they're incompatible either, but engaging in homosexual acts are a different story.

Not sure what your point is. He didn't address the subject. Thus all we can do is to follow his teachings on all other subjects, such as being kind to one another and our fellow human beings. Pretty much trying to follow Matthew 7:12 (or Luke 6:31, if you prefer) in everything we do. Literally following the instructions Jesus did give us.

What about Lev 19:22? 1 Corinth 6:9? The Bible is the inspired word of God, if it's said by an Apostle, we're supposed to just disregard it if we feel like it?

If God "made" you and I gay, don't you think this would be part of the Word?

Neither of those is a teaching of Christ. Surely Christ's word does indeed trump that of one of his apostles. We are Christians, not Paulines, after all.

[bedstuy]

What Christian teachings say about homosexuality is 100% irrelevant to this discussion because we have  a secular Constitution and government. 

[cinyc]

What Christian teachings say about homosexuality is 100% irrelevant to this discussion because we have  a secular Constitution and government. 

We have a First Amendment which says Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion.  That means you can't force a church to perform gay marriages, and, ideally, a baker from baking a pro-gay marriage cake when it is against his religious beliefs to do so.  Sadly, some anti-religious "progressives" on your side want to force both, either through taking away tax-exempt status of religions that don't perform gay marriages or forcing bakers to bake something saying something you don't believe in.

We also have the right to elect officials who will enact whatever policies we think are relevant, whether they be based on religious beliefs, Satanism or moral relativism, as long as they do not go so far as to establish an official state religion.  So to say that we have a secular Constitution and government isn't quite true.  We should, ideally, have a government that reflects the values of those who our representatives represent.

[YaBoyNY]

What Christian teachings say about homosexuality is 100% irrelevant to this discussion because we have  a secular Constitution and government. 

We have a First Amendment which says Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion.  That means you can't force a church to perform gay marriages, and, ideally, a baker from baking a pro-gay marriage cake when it is against his religious beliefs to do so.  Sadly, some anti-religious "progressives" on your side want to force both, either through taking away tax-exempt status of religions that don't perform gay marriages or forcing bakers to bake something saying something you don't believe in.

We also have the right to elect officials who will enact whatever policies we think are relevant, whether they be based on religious beliefs, Satanism or moral relativism, as long as they do not go so far as to establish an official state religion.  So to say that we have a secular Constitution and government isn't quite true.  We should, ideally, have a government that reflects the values of those who our representatives represent.

So Same-Sex Marriage should be legalized federally this very instant then, because the people our representatives supposedly represent support it as a majority.

[Ebsy]

The judiciary doesn't make decisions based on poll numbers or fleeting public opinion. Also, the number of states that have added unconstitutional provisions into their state constitutions is entirely irrelevant.

[Maxwell]

What Christian teachings say about homosexuality is 100% irrelevant to this discussion because we have  a secular Constitution and government. 

[CountryClassSF]

The judiciary doesn't make decisions based on poll numbers or fleeting public opinion. Also, the number of states that have added unconstitutional provisions into their state constitutions is entirely irrelevant.

On SSM, that's exactly what they're doing.  If this was such a burdensome denial of civil rights, the courts would've heard the cases long ago.  I'd like to know what exactly happened in the late 2000s/early 2010s that shifted public opinion almost upside down, suddenly, overnight.
It wasn't gradual.  The aggression towards Christians came on very strong, and it was corporate-funded.

Big businesses have been jumping all over eachother over this.