Evidence that Florida was stolen from Gore in 2000

[Mr.Phips]

I have been comparing votes in the Presidential race in Florida in 2000 to the votes in the Senate race in the same state that year between Bill Nelson and Bill McCollum. 

In 2000, 5,963,110 people voted in Florida for President and 5,856,731 people voted in the Senate race.  This amounts to around a 2% drop-off rate which is a pretty normal drop-off rate from Presidential to Senate.  Almost nobody is going to vote in a Senate race and then skip the Presidential race, but a good number of people will vote for President but not any other office.

Going down to the county level, we see a similar pattern.  I sampled Broward, Marion, and Polk counties and found a drop-off rate from President to Senator of between 1%-2%, in line with the state as a whole.  Miami-Dade county saw a somewhat bigger drop-off of 5%, likely due to the high African American population, who always see a bigger rate of down-ballot drop-off.

Now we get to Palm Beach and Duval counties.  In Palm Beach county, there were 433,222 votes recorded for President, but 436,411 (?!!) votes recorded for Senator.  Are we to believe that almost a full percent of the population of this county voted for Senator but skipped the Presidential race?  I think not.

Duval county saw an even more suspicious difference.  265,000 people reportedly voted for President, while 275,000 people were shown to have voted for Senator, with the biggest discrepancy in heavily black (read:  Democratic precincts).  Again, are we to believe that 4% of the people in this county only voted for Senator? 

My conclusion here is that thousands of Presidential votes somehow got missed in heavily Democratic Palm Beach county and the heavily Democratic parts of Duval county.  God only knows where they all went. 

 

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

[publicunofficial]

Ugh don't make this thread

[The Free North]

There are obviously a ton of unanswered questions as to what happened in FL/2000

But to bring it up 15 years later is pointless...sorry.

[SATW]

go away

[DrScholl]

This has been evident for years, but it's not like it really makes a difference at this point, the damage has been done.

[CountryClassSF]

lolz

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

So the theory here being they got rid of the votes for Gore, but made sure to keep all the votes for Nelson?

[The Other Castro]

You should go back in time and tell someone.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

There are obviously a ton of unanswered questions as to what happened in FL/2000

But to bring it up 15 years later is pointless...sorry.

[bedstuy]

West Palm Beach County had the famous butterfly ballot, so spoiled ballots may explain that discrepancy.   The same might be true for Duval County. 

As for the significance which some people question, it's an important historical moment that demonstrates important facts about elections in America.  Most importantly, every vote counts.  But, also, we need significant reform of our electoral system and less ugly Republican partisanship.  The Republican Party is despicable when it comes to disrespecting the right to vote and the integrity of our election process.

And, Gore got more votes in Florida, by the way.  Every study of a full manual recount shows that to be the case.

[publicunofficial]

West Palm Beach County had the famous butterfly ballot, so spoiled ballots may explain that discrepancy.   The same might be true for Duval County. 

As for the significance which some people question, it's an important historical moment that demonstrates important facts about elections in America.  Most importantly, every vote counts.  But, also, we need significant reform of our electoral system and less ugly Republican partisanship.  The Republican Party is despicable when it comes to disrespecting the right to vote and the integrity of our election process.

And, Gore got more votes in Florida, by the way.  Every study of a full manual recount shows that to be the case.

lol at decrying partisanship while demonizing Republicans in the same clause.

[bedstuy]

West Palm Beach County had the famous butterfly ballot, so spoiled ballots may explain that discrepancy.   The same might be true for Duval County. 

As for the significance which some people question, it's an important historical moment that demonstrates important facts about elections in America.  Most importantly, every vote counts.  But, also, we need significant reform of our electoral system and less ugly Republican partisanship.  The Republican Party is despicable when it comes to disrespecting the right to vote and the integrity of our election process.

And, Gore got more votes in Florida, by the way.  Every study of a full manual recount shows that to be the case.

lol at decrying partisanship while demonizing Republicans in the same clause.

I'm sorry, but it's a fact.  One party in America actively tries to deny people their right to vote for political gain.  Maybe Democrats would do it too, if it were to their benefit to suppress turnout.  But, as a matter of fact, Democrats don't engage in rampant voter disenfranchisement. 

[RFayette]

West Palm Beach County had the famous butterfly ballot, so spoiled ballots may explain that discrepancy.   The same might be true for Duval County. 

As for the significance which some people question, it's an important historical moment that demonstrates important facts about elections in America.  Most importantly, every vote counts.  But, also, we need significant reform of our electoral system and less ugly Republican partisanship.  The Republican Party is despicable when it comes to disrespecting the right to vote and the integrity of our election process.

And, Gore got more votes in Florida, by the way.  Every study of a full manual recount shows that to be the case.

lol at decrying partisanship while demonizing Republicans in the same clause.

I'm sorry, but it's a fact.  One party in America actively tries to deny people their right to vote for political gain.  Maybe Democrats would do it too, if it were to their benefit to suppress turnout.  But, as a matter of fact, Democrats don't engage in rampant voter disenfranchisement. 

Your claim that Gore would have won a full manual recount depends on what standard was being used for the "chads."  Bush would have lost by 3 votes if the "strict standard" was used.

I'm sorry bedstuy, but if you want to change people's minds, then you can't demonize your opposition the way you do.  The Gore campaign tried to

The USA Today/Knight standard found:
Lenient standard. Any alteration in a chad, ranging from a dimple to a full punch, counts as a vote. By this standard, Bush won by 1,665 votes.
Palm Beach standard. A dimple is counted as a vote if other races on the same ballot show dimples as well. By this standard, Bush won by 884 votes.
Two-corner standard. A chad with two or more corners removed is counted as a vote. This is the most common standard in use. By this standard, Bush won by 363 votes.
Strict standard. Only a fully removed chad counts as a vote. By this standard, Gore won by 3 votes.
The study remarks that because of the possibility of mistakes, it is difficult to conclude that Gore was surely the winner under the strict standard. It also remarks that there are variations between examiners, and that election officials often did not provide the same number of undervotes as were counted on Election Day. Furthermore, the study did not consider overvotes, ballots that registered more than one vote when counted by machine.


Look, electronic voting was essential after this fiasco.  But this isn't as cut-and-dry as you like to make it out to be. 

[bedstuy]

West Palm Beach County had the famous butterfly ballot, so spoiled ballots may explain that discrepancy.   The same might be true for Duval County. 

As for the significance which some people question, it's an important historical moment that demonstrates important facts about elections in America.  Most importantly, every vote counts.  But, also, we need significant reform of our electoral system and less ugly Republican partisanship.  The Republican Party is despicable when it comes to disrespecting the right to vote and the integrity of our election process.

And, Gore got more votes in Florida, by the way.  Every study of a full manual recount shows that to be the case.

lol at decrying partisanship while demonizing Republicans in the same clause.

I'm sorry, but it's a fact.  One party in America actively tries to deny people their right to vote for political gain.  Maybe Democrats would do it too, if it were to their benefit to suppress turnout.  But, as a matter of fact, Democrats don't engage in rampant voter disenfranchisement. 

Your claim that Gore would have won a full manual recount depends on what standard was being used for the "chads."  Bush would have lost by 3 votes if the "strict standard" was used.

I'm sorry bedstuy, but if you want to change people's minds, then you can't demonize your opposition the way you do.  The Gore campaign tried to

The USA Today/Knight standard found:
Lenient standard. Any alteration in a chad, ranging from a dimple to a full punch, counts as a vote. By this standard, Bush won by 1,665 votes.
Palm Beach standard. A dimple is counted as a vote if other races on the same ballot show dimples as well. By this standard, Bush won by 884 votes.
Two-corner standard. A chad with two or more corners removed is counted as a vote. This is the most common standard in use. By this standard, Bush won by 363 votes.
Strict standard. Only a fully removed chad counts as a vote. By this standard, Gore won by 3 votes.
The study remarks that because of the possibility of mistakes, it is difficult to conclude that Gore was surely the winner under the strict standard. It also remarks that there are variations between examiners, and that election officials often did not provide the same number of undervotes as were counted on Election Day. Furthermore, the study did not consider overvotes, ballots that registered more than one vote when counted by machine.


Look, electronic voting was essential after this fiasco.  But this isn't as cut-and-dry as you like to make it out to be. 

If you look at over and under-votes, (and why wouldn't you?) Gore won by every conceivable standard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_election_recount

And, that study isn't even a full manual recount study of the election results.  If you actually did that, I think almost everyone agrees, Gore would have won the election.  It may not have been feasible to conclude a manual hand recount, I don't know the details.  But, Gore would have won under that scenario.

[pbrower2a]

Please move this thread to "Election results".

[RFayette]

West Palm Beach County had the famous butterfly ballot, so spoiled ballots may explain that discrepancy.   The same might be true for Duval County. 

As for the significance which some people question, it's an important historical moment that demonstrates important facts about elections in America.  Most importantly, every vote counts.  But, also, we need significant reform of our electoral system and less ugly Republican partisanship.  The Republican Party is despicable when it comes to disrespecting the right to vote and the integrity of our election process.

And, Gore got more votes in Florida, by the way.  Every study of a full manual recount shows that to be the case.

lol at decrying partisanship while demonizing Republicans in the same clause.

I'm sorry, but it's a fact.  One party in America actively tries to deny people their right to vote for political gain.  Maybe Democrats would do it too, if it were to their benefit to suppress turnout.  But, as a matter of fact, Democrats don't engage in rampant voter disenfranchisement. 

Your claim that Gore would have won a full manual recount depends on what standard was being used for the "chads."  Bush would have lost by 3 votes if the "strict standard" was used.

I'm sorry bedstuy, but if you want to change people's minds, then you can't demonize your opposition the way you do.  The Gore campaign tried to

The USA Today/Knight standard found:
Lenient standard. Any alteration in a chad, ranging from a dimple to a full punch, counts as a vote. By this standard, Bush won by 1,665 votes.
Palm Beach standard. A dimple is counted as a vote if other races on the same ballot show dimples as well. By this standard, Bush won by 884 votes.
Two-corner standard. A chad with two or more corners removed is counted as a vote. This is the most common standard in use. By this standard, Bush won by 363 votes.
Strict standard. Only a fully removed chad counts as a vote. By this standard, Gore won by 3 votes.
The study remarks that because of the possibility of mistakes, it is difficult to conclude that Gore was surely the winner under the strict standard. It also remarks that there are variations between examiners, and that election officials often did not provide the same number of undervotes as were counted on Election Day. Furthermore, the study did not consider overvotes, ballots that registered more than one vote when counted by machine.


Look, electronic voting was essential after this fiasco.  But this isn't as cut-and-dry as you like to make it out to be. 

If you look at over and under-votes, (and why wouldn't you?) Gore won by every conceivable standard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_election_recount

And, that study isn't even a full manual recount study of the election results.  If you actually did that, I think almost everyone agrees, Gore would have won the election.  It may not have been feasible to conclude a manual hand recount, I don't know the details.  But, Gore would have won under that scenario.

Fair point, upon doing some more research I found this source:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politics/2001-05-10-recountmain.htm

The USA Today study does appear to have analyzed over/under votes based on the other links; it appears that Gore would've only won with taking rejected chads.  The issue is not disenfranchisement as you claim, but rather a lack of electronic voting, which I am wholly in favor of. 

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You should go back in time and tell someone.

LOL, it was plain as day at the time.

[Mr.Phips]

West Palm Beach County had the famous butterfly ballot, so spoiled ballots may explain that discrepancy.   The same might be true for Duval County. 

As for the significance which some people question, it's an important historical moment that demonstrates important facts about elections in America.  Most importantly, every vote counts.  But, also, we need significant reform of our electoral system and less ugly Republican partisanship.  The Republican Party is despicable when it comes to disrespecting the right to vote and the integrity of our election process.

And, Gore got more votes in Florida, by the way.  Every study of a full manual recount shows that to be the case.

Wouldn't the spoiled butterfly ballots also have lowered the Senate totals?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

When the electoral college is banned and we vote on a popolar vote level; this theory will be tested more.

Everyone knows now that the Crt made a hasty decision.

We have safeguards now, with no punch card ballots that rewarded a Bush presidency.

Punch card ballots were mysteriously used in 2004 OH disputed election.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Looks like we have a genius here guys.

[Türkisblau]

If what you say has any accuracy or relevance whatsoever, then whoever participated in this fraud is completely incompetent.

[emailking]

West Palm Beach County had the famous butterfly ballot, so spoiled ballots may explain that discrepancy.   The same might be true for Duval County. 

As for the significance which some people question, it's an important historical moment that demonstrates important facts about elections in America.  Most importantly, every vote counts.  But, also, we need significant reform of our electoral system and less ugly Republican partisanship.  The Republican Party is despicable when it comes to disrespecting the right to vote and the integrity of our election process.

And, Gore got more votes in Florida, by the way.  Every study of a full manual recount shows that to be the case.

Wouldn't the spoiled butterfly ballots also have lowered the Senate totals?

One of the issues was that people thought they needed to punch twice, once for Gore and once for Lieberman, as they appeared on separate lines in rough alignment with the holes. For Bush, there was only one hole that looks like it could be right at first glance. This aspect of it wouldn't be an issue for Senate since there aren't running mates. It's still a semi-confusing layout until you study it for a moment, so there were probably Senate votes that got spoiled by it as well.

[Potus]

Gore purged over 25,000 military ballots and wanted a selective recount of results.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

The bottom line is no one knows for sure who won Florida in 2000.  I want to believe that Bush did and point to studies that show that, while Democrats want to point to studies claiming Gore did.  But, when it is that close, no one knows for sure (even with a full manual recount, as humans could make slight errors).