Justice System Reform Bill 2 2015
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Author Topic: Justice System Reform Bill 2 2015  (Read 2518 times)
Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2015, 05:03:22 PM »

Could the Senator provide a justification before I make a call on this amendment
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2015, 05:56:01 PM »

I'm not sure that we want to be incentivize lawyers to pursue specific legal outcomes for their clients. Lawyers should work to get the best legal outcome possible for their clients, and many times that includes plea bargains.

Basically what Lief said earlier. While you have made the point (which I agree with) that the sheer scale of plea deals is not necessarily the advocate doing the best for the client, I don't think it's something quantifiable into the law.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2015, 06:09:47 PM »

I'm not sure that we want to be incentivize lawyers to pursue specific legal outcomes for their clients. Lawyers should work to get the best legal outcome possible for their clients, and many times that includes plea bargains.

Basically what Lief said earlier. While you have made the point (which I agree with) that the sheer scale of plea deals is not necessarily the advocate doing the best for the client, I don't think it's something quantifiable into the law.

Friendly.
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Blair
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« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2015, 04:13:35 AM »

Would Senator Polnut be open to an amendment that tries to get back his intention? I like the idea of giving an incentive, even more so for law firms to basically get the best offer for their clients. Perhaps a further tax credit or educational support for inner city law firms that help the poorest in society?
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2015, 04:15:25 AM »

Would Senator Polnut be open to an amendment that tries to get back his intention? I like the idea of giving an incentive, even more so for law firms to basically get the best offer for their clients. Perhaps a further tax credit or educational support for inner city law firms that help the poorest in society?

I'm open, but as Lief does correctly point out, there is a danger of quantifying the 'best interests' for clients, when each situation is different.
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TNF
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« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2015, 08:47:14 AM »

Senators have 36 hours to object to Talleyrand's proposed amendment.
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2015, 09:48:14 AM »

With no objections, the amendment has been adopted.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2015, 10:25:36 PM »

The point about quantifying is true, though needless to say there are many issues concerning whether or not proper representation is being given when the plea bargaining rate is so high.

The quality of the lawyer (Wink) and the caseload I would imagine are your biggest factors. This is why I made a point that discouraging the highest performers in college from going into the legal profession would be detrimental. That said we run into the problem of them going into the big flight law firms and churning out millions representing Micro$s**t and BoFA.

In education there have been programs to get high performers in college to go into teaching and then go to the worst performing schools. I think the same is needed this environment. A mechanism or a sub-program that rewards those high performers for going into law and then providing this kind of aid, and also another that encourages top flight attorneys to provide similar assistance so you can get experience on the ground as well.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2015, 02:19:33 AM »

So what is the story with this now?

Does anyone have any recommendations on how best to strike a balance between access and quality when it comes to this field and particuarly as it relates to defending poorer clients who usually get bad or no representation at all?
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Blair
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« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2015, 02:04:53 PM »

So what is the story with this now?

Does anyone have any recommendations on how best to strike a balance between access and quality when it comes to this field and particuarly as it relates to defending poorer clients who usually get bad or no representation at all?

I'd be happy to virtually redraft the bill to make it A) Aimed at young gradutes B) Ensuring equal access to the law.

It seems like we're holding up the senate here Yankee
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2015, 01:03:40 AM »

Lets see, I counted about four other bills that were langushing just as bad, so probably not. But indeed, we should proceed with all haste here.


I think our ultimate goal here is equality before the law, the underpinning of any democracy. Equal access to quality representation is a critical aspect of obtaining that.

That said I am not saying a tax credit is a bad incentive, I just think that on its own it will fall short in getting the legal representation where it is needed and you need a program to target high performing grads and experienced legal professionals in that direction. That program could be anywhere from a voluntary organization to that of say an organization that pays or subsidizes their fee to compenstate for the lower reimburesment in defense law, should they take these cases.
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Blair
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« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2015, 01:39:50 AM »

Lets see, I counted about four other bills that were langushing just as bad, so probably not. But indeed, we should proceed with all haste here.


I think our ultimate goal here is equality before the law, the underpinning of any democracy. Equal access to quality representation is a critical aspect of obtaining that.

That said I am not saying a tax credit is a bad incentive, I just think that on its own it will fall short in getting the legal representation where it is needed and you need a program to target high performing grads and experienced legal professionals in that direction. That program could be anywhere from a voluntary organization to that of say an organization that pays or subsidizes their fee to compenstate for the lower reimburesment in defense law, should they take these cases.

Phrased it badly, I meant that apart from Talleyrand we seem to be the only active people.

I think we need something more than a tax credit, because it just seems like something we'd give out  hoping it would make a difference, without any tracking or progress
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2015, 03:20:40 AM »

I have been tied up with RL stuff for longer than planned. I'll be back on board tomorrow.
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Blair
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« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2015, 03:11:45 PM »
« Edited: June 25, 2015, 05:31:38 PM by Senator Blair »

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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2015, 07:00:03 PM »

[/quote]

I'm comfortable with this.
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2015, 07:05:40 PM »

Senators have 24 hours to object to that amendment.
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2015, 10:18:14 AM »

The amendment has been adopted.
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Blair
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« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2015, 10:31:40 AM »

wicked, I've left some funding out to introduce some sort of scholarship/support scheme to get top lawyers into inner city law firms that are community based rather than big corporate firms
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2015, 02:21:27 AM »

I think this is the best approach we are going to get for this matter and the overall structure looks rather solid to me. That said there is a euro symbol in clause 2b, that probably should be removed. Tongue
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Blair
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« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2015, 05:32:26 PM »

I think this is the best approach we are going to get for this matter and the overall structure looks rather solid to me. That said there is a euro symbol in clause 2b, that probably should be removed. Tongue

Fixed, I blame Atlasia for causing me to type everything into dollars now without a second thought.

I'll hammer out the funding for training/scholarships tomorrow when I'm not as tired
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2015, 01:56:29 AM »

Dang Ferreners ftw. Tongue Wink
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Blair
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« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2015, 07:24:54 AM »

New amendment to the bill, happy to take suggestions or removals

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Ban my account ffs!
snowguy716
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« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2015, 02:46:29 PM »

I know the vote was just held...but I would amend the income ceiling to a certain percentage over the poverty line...like 150%.  A family of four living on $36,000/year where the breadwinner stands accused would be absolutely effed.
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Blair
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« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2015, 12:31:11 PM »

I know the vote was just held...but I would amend the income ceiling to a certain percentage over the poverty line...like 150%.  A family of four living on $36,000/year where the breadwinner stands accused would be absolutely effed.

Oh yeah much better-then we can tie it to inflation. I'll offer an amendment
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Blair
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« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2015, 12:47:37 PM »

New amendment to the bill, happy to take suggestions or removals

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