Justice System Reform Bill 2 2015

[Blair]

Sorry for posting before Polnut has a chance to give his brief on this but could we change the name of this considering there's another justice reform bill being debated. This bill seems specific to 'legal aid' as we call it in the UK (getting a discounted lawyer basically)

[Blair]

Legal language is always lost in translation across the pond.

Are public defense cases ones where you're defending a member of the public? So if someone is charged with burglary you defend them against the state?

[Blair]

I agree with the plea bargaining, I've read lots of things about poorer people existentially getting played by the legal system.

Would there be an issue with large firms getting a tax break here? I'm not 100% comfortable giving a multi-million pound law firm a tax break, but I could be wrong

[Blair]

I agree with the plea bargaining, I've read lots of things about poorer people existentially getting played by the legal system.

Would there be an issue with large firms getting a tax break here? I'm not 100% comfortable giving a multi-million pound law firm a tax break, but I could be wrong

Sure, that's the risk here, but it's a pragmatic approach. We're trying to create an incentive for the firms with the most capacity to become engaged in this format, hence why the reduction is tiered, with the smaller firms getting more. A lot of firms undertake pro-bono work, but it's not formalised and doesn't in any way deal with reducing the workload of our existing public defenders. If it means throwing a bone to successful firms, it doesn't really bother me. Especially since smaller firms tend to have less capacity to undertake these kinds of projects or have a more niche focus.

I didn't see the tiered system, that looks like enough to ensure that it's not just a hand out

[Blair]

TNF's proposal is obviously a TNF proposal, and I don't want to distract from the core of this, but can anyone explain to me why it's to our advantage as a nation to subject legal representation to market forces? Does it actually result in a more efficient allocation of legal resources, or do market failures dominate?

I assume the idea is to ensure equality of legal access, which can be as detrimental as lack of access to healthcare/energy/schooling. I mean I think everyone should have a right to a fair trail, and this extends to ensuring everyone has good legal protection

[Blair]

Would Senator Polnut be open to an amendment that tries to get back his intention? I like the idea of giving an incentive, even more so for law firms to basically get the best offer for their clients. Perhaps a further tax credit or educational support for inner city law firms that help the poorest in society?

[Blair]

So what is the story with this now?

Does anyone have any recommendations on how best to strike a balance between access and quality when it comes to this field and particuarly as it relates to defending poorer clients who usually get bad or no representation at all?

I'd be happy to virtually redraft the bill to make it A) Aimed at young gradutes B) Ensuring equal access to the law.

It seems like we're holding up the senate here Yankee

[Blair]

Lets see, I counted about four other bills that were langushing just as bad, so probably not. But indeed, we should proceed with all haste here.


I think our ultimate goal here is equality before the law, the underpinning of any democracy. Equal access to quality representation is a critical aspect of obtaining that.

That said I am not saying a tax credit is a bad incentive, I just think that on its own it will fall short in getting the legal representation where it is needed and you need a program to target high performing grads and experienced legal professionals in that direction. That program could be anywhere from a voluntary organization to that of say an organization that pays or subsidizes their fee to compenstate for the lower reimburesment in defense law, should they take these cases.

Phrased it badly, I meant that apart from Talleyrand we seem to be the only active people.

I think we need something more than a tax credit, because it just seems like something we'd give out  hoping it would make a difference, without any tracking or progress

[Blair]

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[Blair]

wicked, I've left some funding out to introduce some sort of scholarship/support scheme to get top lawyers into inner city law firms that are community based rather than big corporate firms

[Blair]

I think this is the best approach we are going to get for this matter and the overall structure looks rather solid to me. That said there is a euro symbol in clause 2b, that probably should be removed.

Fixed, I blame Atlasia for causing me to type everything into dollars now without a second thought.

I'll hammer out the funding for training/scholarships tomorrow when I'm not as tired

[Blair]

New amendment to the bill, happy to take suggestions or removals

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[Blair]

I know the vote was just held...but I would amend the income ceiling to a certain percentage over the poverty line...like 150%.  A family of four living on $36,000/year where the breadwinner stands accused would be absolutely effed.

Oh yeah much better-then we can tie it to inflation. I'll offer an amendment

[Blair]

New amendment to the bill, happy to take suggestions or removals

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[Blair]

Amendment is friendly

[Blair]

Glad you've managed to do well with this bill. Does anyone have anything further that they want to have?

[Blair]

A motion has been called for a final vote, 24 hours for any objections?

[Blair]

A final vote is now open, Senators have 48 hours to vote

[Blair]

Aye

This has enough votes to pass

[Blair]

This bill has passed the Senate (6-0), and will be sent to the President