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Author Topic: NAY  (Read 695 times)
Prince of Salem
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« on: May 25, 2015, 01:43:12 AM »

Hello, fellow Atlasians. Today I stand in front of you in opposition to the (Reintroduced) Cabinet Reform Amendment being voted on at this very moment.

There is many reasons why I oppose this amendment.

First, because it allows the President to create and eliminate cabinet offices at will, by Executive Order.

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While I think each President should be able to set his own blueprint into the executive he leads (like the name changes Lumine made during his administration), this much power would lead to both excessive executive powers and massive confusion, because it'd be so hard to tell which cabinet offices exist at every moment.

Second, because it omits and subsequently erases important regulations set by the Twenty-Fourth Amendment. Under this new amendment, Senators would be legally allowed to become Secretary of Federal Election or Registrar General, something Atlasians already rejected when they voted against the Fairness In Cabinet Obligations Amendment. Yeah, I know that can be fixed through legislation, but something as delicate as that should be well set in the Constitution.

Third, because allowing the Senate to remove the Game Moderator by a three fifths vote is potentially dangerous when we have two recent cases in which a single party controlled three fifths of the Senate. A two thirds vote (as was or is the law for this) would be much safer and more appropriate.

Anyone is free to join this cause and, if they wish, explain why they also oppose.

x Altsomn Stmarken
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Former Lincoln Assemblyman & Lt. Gov. RGN
RGN08
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2015, 04:30:50 AM »

Agree. I think the radical reform that the government is trying now is not right.
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Blair
Blair2015
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2015, 04:46:27 AM »

Just because one party had a majority doesn't mean that they'd vote in favour of removing a GM-stuff like this really stretches your point
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Poirot
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2015, 10:26:53 AM »


Second, because it omits and subsequently erases important regulations set by the Twenty-Fourth Amendment. Under this new amendment, Senators would be legally allowed to become Secretary of Federal Election or Registrar General, something Atlasians already rejected when they voted against the Fairness In Cabinet Obligations Amendment. Yeah, I know that can be fixed through legislation, but something as delicate as that should be well set in the Constitution.

This is about amending article V section 1.
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Official_Constitution#Article_V

I am not sure what the amendment does. I thought it changed text of the first paragraph but what followed (senators being able to be in Cabinet office) was not changed because I don't remember reading legislators discussing a desire to change that in their debate.

But if section 1 becomes only what the text is in the amendment maybe it means senators can't hold more than one office.

I'm not sure what is the result if this is adopted and there was not an explanation to the general public on this long amendment.
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Prince of Salem
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2015, 10:52:31 AM »

Just because one party had a majority doesn't mean that they'd vote in favour of removing a GM-stuff like this really stretches your point

That'll not necessarily be the case, but we run on that risk, which is not worth it.
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Prince of Salem
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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2015, 11:08:39 AM »


Second, because it omits and subsequently erases important regulations set by the Twenty-Fourth Amendment. Under this new amendment, Senators would be legally allowed to become Secretary of Federal Election or Registrar General, something Atlasians already rejected when they voted against the Fairness In Cabinet Obligations Amendment. Yeah, I know that can be fixed through legislation, but something as delicate as that should be well set in the Constitution.

This is about amending article V section 1.
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Official_Constitution#Article_V

I am not sure what the amendment does. I thought it changed text of the first paragraph but what followed (senators being able to be in Cabinet office) was not changed because I don't remember reading legislators discussing a desire to change that in their debate.

But if section 1 becomes only what the text is in the amendment maybe it means senators can't hold more than one office.

I'm not sure what is the result if this is adopted and there was not an explanation to the general public on this long amendment.

This is not the case, at least as I read the proposed amendment. Let's quote.

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What this part of the amendment says is that the Secretaries of the President's cabinet are allowed to hold any other office at the same time. In the case of the Game Moderator, he'd be allowed to hold another cabinet position, but that's it.

This would mean that, at least at a constitutional level, the only Cabinet office Senators wouldn't be allowed to hold would be the one of Game Moderator. That could be regulated through legislation, but as I said, the Constitution is a more powerful tool and it'd be required for something as delicate as this.

And yes, I also think there should be more public explanations from the senators about what the amendments intend. But we should always point out, as I do now, what the amendments could unintentionally do.
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Poirot
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« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2015, 05:03:10 PM »

It's not clear for me if the amendment changes Senators being able to hold another office or not.
(constitutionnal amendment 24) Maybe it was discussed before, when this Cabinet amendment was introduced and discussed the first time.

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I worry about this stoping some situation like in the Northeast the Lieutenant Governor is also a representative and that could be seen has tow offices. I think this text was there before and it hasn't stopped the NE Lieutenant Governor situation so I don't think it would change.
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2015, 10:45:08 AM »

Some early returns

Northeast:
Yes - 3 (23%)
No - 10 (77%)
Turnout - 13 (32%)

Projection: Northeast to reject amendment

Pacific:
Yes - 3 (100%)
No - 0 (0%)
Turnout - 3 (12%)

Projection: To Early To Call
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2015, 02:12:07 PM »

Such an amendment would destroy the independence (or maybe very existence) of the GM office.
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2015, 02:23:43 PM »

Such an amendment would destroy the independence (or maybe very existence) of the GM office.
The people of the Northeast are strongly behind the no vote by the looks of it - hopefully the GM office will go nowhere. Smiley
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