United Kingdom Referendum on European Union Membership
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Author Topic: United Kingdom Referendum on European Union Membership  (Read 175413 times)
The Last Northerner
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« Reply #175 on: March 31, 2016, 12:33:43 AM »

Some interesting commentary. Could UKIP's presence spook British Muslims into voting to stay?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #176 on: March 31, 2016, 08:48:11 PM »
« Edited: March 31, 2016, 08:51:08 PM by CrabCake »

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/01/exclusive-royal-family-considering-dramatic-brexit-intervention

Yes, I know that anonymous quotes from the Palace are classic sources of yellow journalism, but this article is hilarious. The characterisation of the Out campaigners, of Cameron, the random praise of Varafoukis and Tsipras (lol), Ant and Dec ... Not to mention this:

Another insider said early proposals to do a live broadcast have been rejected in favour of a pre-recorded session because of Philip’s propensity for swearing. “The words have to be perfect,” she said
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CrabCake
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« Reply #177 on: March 31, 2016, 08:53:47 PM »

Never mind just remembered the date. Will leave up as testament of my silliness.
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ChrisDR68
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« Reply #178 on: April 15, 2016, 03:02:53 PM »

Very interesting ending to this first episode of Nick Robinson's Europe: Them Or Us shown on BBC2 this week (the crucial bit starts at 57.20):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HYnG84Ihyw

Right at the time of the UK's entry in 1973 the French president Pompidou wanted to set the agenda for the road ahead aiming at economic and monetary union which he suggested should be aimed for 1980.

Foreign secretary Sir Alec Douglas Hume read the message and said to Heath "I don't think the house will like this very much Ted".

Heath is said to have replied "But that Alec is what it's all about".

Replying to the interviewer after being reminded of this story years later Heath replied "Well that's what it was about. And we've have got it too".

Now you can argue about the merits about economic and monetary union (personally I think it's nuts and the countries of the Eurozone are condemning themselves to years or even decades of low growth because of it) but the irritating thing in the UK is that the EU enthusiasts never mention it. Their arguments are all about economics.

Wrong.

It's all about politics and always has been.
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #179 on: April 27, 2016, 09:49:29 AM »

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ChrisDR68
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« Reply #180 on: April 27, 2016, 10:29:43 AM »



For anyone on here that refuses to believe a federal European superstate is just around the corner here is a quote from pages 4 and 5 from the Five President's Report written by Jean-Claude Juncker published last June:

Progress must happen on four fronts: first, towards a genuine Economic Union that ensures each economy has the structural features to prosper within the Monetary Union. Second, towards a Financial Union that guarantess the integrity of our currency across the Monetary Union and increaes risk-sharing with the private sector. This means completing the Banking Union and accelerating the Capital Markets Union. Third, towards a Fiscal Union that delivers both fiscal sustainability and fiscal stabilisation. And finally, towards a Political Union that provides the foundation for all of the above through genuine democratic accountability, legitimacy and institutional strengthening.

Once they reach the political union stage a federal European superstate will be a reality.

The bolded bits are in the original text so I copied it.

https://ec.europa.eu/priorities/sites/beta-political/files/5-presidents-report_en.pdf
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #181 on: April 28, 2016, 05:22:53 PM »

TNS Face-To-Face Poll (Scotland; 1-24 April):
Remain 48% (-3)
Leave 21% (+2)
Don't Know 31% (+2)

Excluding Don't Knows
Remain 70% (-3)
Leave 30% (+3)

Certain/Likely to vote: 85%
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swl
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« Reply #182 on: May 03, 2016, 02:31:23 PM »

For anyone on here that refuses to believe a federal European superstate is just around the corner here is a quote from pages 4 and 5 from the Five President's Report written by Jean-Claude Juncker published last JuneSad...]
However this paper is about the European economic and monetary union (=eurozone), so it does not affect the UK.
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #183 on: May 03, 2016, 02:37:53 PM »

For anyone on here that refuses to believe a federal European superstate is just around the corner here is a quote from pages 4 and 5 from the Five President's Report written by Jean-Claude Juncker published last JuneSad...]
However this paper is about the European economic and monetary union (=eurozone), so it does not affect the UK.

Not at the present time, no.
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Gary J
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« Reply #184 on: May 03, 2016, 03:04:50 PM »

The Democratic Accountability part of the 5-President's Report does not seem to envisage anything which would actually create democratic accountability.

It is not directly relevant to the present UK referendum, but I would suggest that democratic accountability would only be improved by abolishing the Commission and the Council (in its executive role) and replacing them with a European Union government responsible to the European Parliament. The Council and the Parliament could then take there proper democratic roles as a bicameral legislature, with each body having at the very least equal powers and the full right to initiate and amend legislation on any European Union competence.

My suggestions may not deal with the objection that there can be no true democratic accountability, because there is no real European polity. It is far more likely to create something useful than the bureaucratic and diplomatic waffle of the 5-President's Report.
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Helsinkian
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« Reply #185 on: May 05, 2016, 04:40:47 PM »

Could some SNP supporters vote 'Leave' just in order to get a new independence referendum later?
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Gass3268
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« Reply #186 on: May 05, 2016, 06:24:46 PM »

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ag
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« Reply #187 on: May 06, 2016, 06:28:12 AM »

Trump has endorsed Brexit. That alone should be reason enough for every decent person to vote to stay.
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #188 on: May 06, 2016, 07:55:27 AM »

Trump has endorsed Brexit. That alone should be reason enough for every decent person to vote to stay.

I don't go around saying that people should vote for Brexit because war criminals like Tony Blair and misogynists like Jeremy Clarkson support Bremain...
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ag
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« Reply #189 on: May 06, 2016, 07:57:05 AM »

Trump has endorsed Brexit. That alone should be reason enough for every decent person to vote to stay.

I don't go around saying that people should vote for Brexit because war criminals great  statesmen like Tony Blair ... support Bremain...

Please do.
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #190 on: May 06, 2016, 08:05:18 AM »

Well, you're certainly convincing me.
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ag
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« Reply #191 on: May 06, 2016, 08:26:31 AM »

Well, you're certainly convincing me.

I've given given up on convincing racist xenophobes and other assorted Trumpists.
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IceAgeComing
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« Reply #192 on: May 06, 2016, 08:36:13 AM »

Could some SNP supporters vote 'Leave' just in order to get a new independence referendum later?

that would be a very dumb thing to do; considering that a second independence referendum is kind of contingent of there being as big a remain vote in scotland as possible
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #193 on: May 06, 2016, 08:43:05 AM »

Well, you're certainly convincing me.

I've given given up on convincing racist xenophobes and other assorted Trumpists.

Seems reasonable enough; not sure what all that has to do with me though.
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ag
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« Reply #194 on: May 06, 2016, 09:28:09 AM »

Well, you're certainly convincing me.

I've given given up on convincing racist xenophobes and other assorted Trumpists.

Seems reasonable enough; not sure what all that has to do with me though.

Depends on whether you are convincible.
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jaichind
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« Reply #195 on: May 06, 2016, 02:44:29 PM »

Trump has endorsed Brexit. That alone should be reason enough for every decent person to vote to stay.

Very clever of Trump.  He is trying wrap himself up with a certain part of the Margaret Thatcher legacy.   
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Zanas
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« Reply #196 on: May 06, 2016, 04:47:07 PM »

Trump has endorsed Brexit. That alone should be reason enough for every decent person to vote to stay.

Very clever of Trump.  He is trying wrap himself up with a certain part of the Margaret Thatcher legacy.   
I don't think Trump has any idea who Margaret Thatcher is.
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ag
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« Reply #197 on: May 06, 2016, 05:29:25 PM »

Trump has endorsed Brexit. That alone should be reason enough for every decent person to vote to stay.

Very clever of Trump.  He is trying wrap himself up with a certain part of the Margaret Thatcher legacy.   
I don't think Trump has any idea who Margaret Thatcher is.

No, of course he knows who she is: he is old enough. Whether he is aware of her position on Europe is another question completely.
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ChrisDR68
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« Reply #198 on: May 07, 2016, 06:50:56 AM »

The Democratic Accountability part of the 5-President's Report does not seem to envisage anything which would actually create democratic accountability.

It is not directly relevant to the present UK referendum, but I would suggest that democratic accountability would only be improved by abolishing the Commission and the Council (in its executive role) and replacing them with a European Union government responsible to the European Parliament. The Council and the Parliament could then take there proper democratic roles as a bicameral legislature, with each body having at the very least equal powers and the full right to initiate and amend legislation on any European Union competence.

My suggestions may not deal with the objection that there can be no true democratic accountability, because there is no real European polity. It is far more likely to create something useful than the bureaucratic and diplomatic waffle of the 5-President's Report.

Personally I think it would be better to scrap this whole complicated structure entirely and go back to having independent sovereign countries co-operating on trade and foreign affairs issues in their mutual national interests similiar to how the old EEC operated in the 1970's and 1980's.

First to go should be the single currency. The Eurozone economy won't recover until that is dispensed with. It just depends on how stubborn the Franco-German axis is in supporting it. So far they've been very, very stubborn.
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Slow Learner
Battenberg
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« Reply #199 on: May 07, 2016, 08:47:06 AM »

Trump has endorsed Brexit. That alone should be reason enough for every decent person to vote to stay.

Very clever of Trump.  He is trying wrap himself up with a certain part of the Margaret Thatcher legacy.   


This one, you mean?
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