United Kingdom Referendum on European Union Membership
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Author Topic: United Kingdom Referendum on European Union Membership  (Read 175404 times)
President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #1675 on: June 24, 2016, 02:19:41 AM »

Seems like, Cameron is doing the proper thing and resigning. Hopefully also from the Commons.
Yep. He was doomed the moment Leave was declared as winner.
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ag
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« Reply #1676 on: June 24, 2016, 02:20:58 AM »

Cameron choosing to resign right now is irresponsible.  The country is in chaos!

The country voted itself into chaos. It is the voter choice. Not letting the country to fall into chaos would be a violation of basic democratic principles. The country will get what it chose.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #1677 on: June 24, 2016, 02:23:58 AM »

Cameron is...resigning!
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #1678 on: June 24, 2016, 02:24:54 AM »

Cameron choosing to resign right now is irresponsible.  The country is in chaos!

The country voted itself into chaos. It is the voter choice. Not letting the country to fall into chaos would be a violation of basic democratic principles. The country will get what it chose.
Also, Cameron's incompetence during the referendum doomed any chance of him staying on afterwards. He has no moral authority.
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ag
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« Reply #1679 on: June 24, 2016, 02:25:36 AM »

Cameron choosing to resign right now is irresponsible.  The country is in chaos!

The country voted itself into chaos. It is the voter choice. Not letting the country to fall into chaos would be a violation of basic democratic principles. The country will get what it chose.
Also, Cameron's incompetence during the referendum doomed any chance of him staying on afterwards. He has no moral authority.

He called this referendum. He has to go.
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dax00
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« Reply #1680 on: June 24, 2016, 02:31:45 AM »

Cameron choosing to resign right now is irresponsible.  The country is in perceived chaos!
Fixed it
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #1681 on: June 24, 2016, 02:58:14 AM »

Cameron choosing to resign right now is irresponsible.  The country is in chaos!

The country voted itself into chaos. It is the voter choice. Not letting the country to fall into chaos would be a violation of basic democratic principles. The country will get what it chose.
Also, Cameron's incompetence during the referendum doomed any chance of him staying on afterwards. He has no moral authority.

He called this referendum. He has to go.
Yes. Full agreement with you here ag.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1682 on: June 24, 2016, 03:07:04 AM »

Well, the next couple of months is going to be really interesting, on many different levels. The kinda-hilarious thing is that Farage&co have it completely backwards: this will be an unmitigated disaster for the UK, but might actually be beneficial to the EU over the long run.

The really worrying thing is how utterly out of touch Labour MPs are with their own voters. Obviously I can't blame Labour for supporting the choice that's in the best interest of their country, but it's not healthy for a party not to be able to channel the opinions and concerns of their base. Labour is one of the few European parties that has managed to at least partly keep a working class identity, but this could change very soon in the upcoming turmoil. Corbyn might not be the best leader for these times, but I'm pretty sure any of his possible replacements would be even worse.
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Intell
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« Reply #1683 on: June 24, 2016, 03:18:50 AM »


Much of the elite is feeling angry and spiteful right now.  They're lashing out.  Downgrading the UKs credit rating would be a spiteful move.

There needs to be consequences for this incompetence.

There's the spitefulness!

No spite, just facts. Your credit rating is based on your economic stability, which the voters just decided to disregard.

Indeed, thus downgrading us to the same level as economic basket cases such as the United States and New Zealand... Again, the full economic consequences of Brexit will not be known for some time, however, one thing that will hurt our economy for sure is pointless negative speculation within two hours of voting to leave the EU.

Oh Cass, I'm afraid our rating is going to play a game of how low can you go.

I don't care why I should care about globalists finances, and their spitefulness over common people.

I assume in the Great Depression you would have said "ha stock market losers, this will never effect the common man" or in the recession you would have said "who cares, it's just rich bastards who deal with that stuff"?

This won't lead to the Great Depression. Unless financial institutions make it.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1684 on: June 24, 2016, 03:30:56 AM »


Much of the elite is feeling angry and spiteful right now.  They're lashing out.  Downgrading the UKs credit rating would be a spiteful move.

There needs to be consequences for this incompetence.

There's the spitefulness!

No spite, just facts. Your credit rating is based on your economic stability, which the voters just decided to disregard.

Indeed, thus downgrading us to the same level as economic basket cases such as the United States and New Zealand... Again, the full economic consequences of Brexit will not be known for some time, however, one thing that will hurt our economy for sure is pointless negative speculation within two hours of voting to leave the EU.

Oh Cass, I'm afraid our rating is going to play a game of how low can you go.

I don't care why I should care about globalists finances, and their spitefulness over common people.

I assume in the Great Depression you would have said "ha stock market losers, this will never effect the common man" or in the recession you would have said "who cares, it's just rich bastards who deal with that stuff"?

This won't lead to the Great Depression. Unless financial institutions make it.

It might not be the Great Depression, but if you really think that severing a multitude of provisions that have connected the UK with its main trading partners will be economically painless (and I mean in terms of direct economic consequences, not even factoring in the financial panic that will indeed happen), you're in for a surprise.
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« Reply #1685 on: June 24, 2016, 03:33:40 AM »

When economic shocks happen, it's always the little guy who suffers you fool.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #1686 on: June 24, 2016, 03:35:45 AM »

Losing Sheffield and other Labour strongholds up north tilted it here, if Cameron's gone Crobyn's chair shouldn't be any safer
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jeron
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« Reply #1687 on: June 24, 2016, 03:38:07 AM »

Cameron choosing to resign right now is irresponsible.  The country is in chaos!

Yes, but he caused it. Cameron gambled and ultimately lost. The conservatives won the general election, but now he is forced to step down, the Tories were divided over the brexit and Scotland is bound to have another independence referendum.
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Vega
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« Reply #1688 on: June 24, 2016, 03:39:36 AM »

Not just Scotland, apparently Northern Ireland, even though they are still more supportive of Union, they are definitely going down a more nationalistic path.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1689 on: June 24, 2016, 03:39:59 AM »

When economic shocks happen, it's always the little guy who suffers you fool.

Is that directed to me? Huh
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1690 on: June 24, 2016, 03:42:20 AM »

Losing Sheffield and other Labour strongholds up north tilted it here, if Cameron's gone Crobyn's chair shouldn't be any safer

A lot of older Labour voters in such places are very much COMMANDING HEIGHTS/THE EU IS A CAPITALIST CONSPIRACY types who voted NO in 1975 (i.e. literally Dennis Skinner) and were never going to be won round even had a big effort been made. A big effort, of course, was not made.

Plenty of rumours wrt Corbyn's position though. With suggested threats from different currents, so to speak...
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1691 on: June 24, 2016, 03:44:09 AM »

Losing Sheffield and other Labour strongholds up north tilted it here, if Cameron's gone Crobyn's chair shouldn't be any safer

Can you think of any potential Labour leader who could be any better at speaking to these constituencies, though?

Actually, I'm curious if Al thinks there is one. I haven't seen any but admittedly I don't follow British politics very closely.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #1692 on: June 24, 2016, 03:44:55 AM »
« Edited: June 24, 2016, 03:47:01 AM by Hnv1 »

Not just Scotland, apparently Northern Ireland, even though they are still more supportive of Union, they are definitely going down a more nationalistic path.
Ulster Unionists wouldn't go for an independent NI it's an nonviable option. Staying with rUK isn't any better for them, sticking with Scotland makes sense but I can't see the republicans going with that.
Also good friday as far as I remember is breached when Brexit does happen. So the road to escalation is wide open
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Hnv1
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« Reply #1693 on: June 24, 2016, 03:46:22 AM »

Losing Sheffield and other Labour strongholds up north tilted it here, if Cameron's gone Crobyn's chair shouldn't be any safer

Can you think of any potential Labour leader who could be any better at speaking to these constituencies, though?

Actually, I'm curious if Al thinks there is one. I haven't seen any but admittedly I don't follow British politics very closely.
Burnham from the last batch, Dan Jarvis from the MPs
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« Reply #1694 on: June 24, 2016, 03:47:31 AM »

When economic shocks happen, it's always the little guy who suffers you fool.

Is that directed to me? Huh

Nah at intell
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #1695 on: June 24, 2016, 03:47:44 AM »

Rumours that John McDonnell is involved in moves against Corbyn.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1696 on: June 24, 2016, 03:53:52 AM »

Losing Sheffield and other Labour strongholds up north tilted it here, if Cameron's gone Crobyn's chair shouldn't be any safer

Can you think of any potential Labour leader who could be any better at speaking to these constituencies, though?

Actually, I'm curious if Al thinks there is one. I haven't seen any but admittedly I don't follow British politics very closely.

Note also the very poor Remain results compared to what was widely expected in heavily minority areas. I think most voters were not thinking in party terms when they voted yesterday so if the question of 'who could have convinced more Labour supporters in Sparkbrook or Merthyr or Brightside to vote Remain' then it's probably the wrong question.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #1697 on: June 24, 2016, 04:19:27 AM »

The most important issues being the territorial integrity of the United Kingdom, this is a bad day. Even if you accept the idea that the EU is a net minus, it's not worse than having the country disintegrate.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1698 on: June 24, 2016, 04:21:29 AM »

Losing Sheffield and other Labour strongholds up north tilted it here, if Cameron's gone Crobyn's chair shouldn't be any safer

Can you think of any potential Labour leader who could be any better at speaking to these constituencies, though?

Actually, I'm curious if Al thinks there is one. I haven't seen any but admittedly I don't follow British politics very closely.

Note also the very poor Remain results compared to what was widely expected in heavily minority areas. I think most voters were not thinking in party terms when they voted yesterday so if the question of 'who could have convinced more Labour supporters in Sparkbrook or Merthyr or Brightside to vote Remain' then it's probably the wrong question.

That makes sense, thanks.

In this case, would you say that there is no feeling of disaffection toward Labour among these constituencies (or, if that there is, it's limited to this specific set of issues and isn't likely to spill over into actual political alignments)? I just find it unsettling that the gap between elites and voters was so wide. In some ways it almost makes me wish there was a pro-Brexit wing in the Labour (even though it would mean such wing would necessarily be made up of awful demagogues), to ensure that the party properly represents its electorate.
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Cassius
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« Reply #1699 on: June 24, 2016, 04:33:30 AM »

Rumours that John McDonnell is involved in moves against Corbyn.

How loyal of him.

Anyway, what I wouldn't give for this result to be overturned - at least it would shut up these whining imbeciles on the interwebs who think that having been interrailing in Europe makes them Ernest ing Hemingway and that they have a deep connection to all things European which is now being taken away by the evil Brexiters Roll Eyes
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