United Kingdom Referendum on European Union Membership

[ag]

LibDems should run in the next election on Europe.

To what end? Vote for us and we'll stop the exit? Can't see that going down too well, now that Brexit is decided I don't see a single issue libdem can run on

I imagine such a position would be very popular with some voters.  Even if that number is 20% of the electorate, that's a lot more than what the LibDems are currently getting.

Exactly. It will not be enough to win an election: so neither Labour, nor Tories will be able to adopt it. But LibDems, who have no chance to form the government on their own, may well increase their representation by it, clearly distinguishing themselves from the main parties. And, being firmly pro-EU they could, actually, condition their participation in a government, if coalition is necessary, on a repeat referendum - providing an excuse for whoever the PM is to run one.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Quasi-Hot take: leave has little to no true mandate at this point and the Commons could do nothing wrong by ignoring the referendum.
Problem is, everyone has been acting as it has and so soon the effect will be that Leave has had a mandate all along.

[Antonio the Sixth]

In both cases neither are likely to be in much trouble but the asymmetry is interesting.

It's because the one fits into a media narrative (largely driven by what many would like to see happen) while the other doesn't.

Weren't Tories split in half or so about the referendum? That's quite different from nearly all Labour MPs (including Corbyn, who is one of those in the party for whom opposition to the EU would have made some sense) being on the Remain side.

Again that's obviously not something we should blame Labour for, but it's a bit unnerving.

[afleitch]

Hell also froze over today.

[Ebsy]

Hell also froze over today.

A month ago this would have been photoshopped as a satirical prediction of an absurd Brexit result.

[Zinneke]

The thing that really gets me is the dishonesty and fear mongering over Northern Ireland. There is absolutely not going to be border checkpoints set up. Absolutely no way. The most likely thing to happen is  there will be a passport required to travel between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

I don't get it. What was the point of leaving the EU if not to impose ridiculous border restrictions?

There will be border restrictions, but not between Northern Ireland and the Republic!  This has been stressed over and over again but the Bremainers willfully ignored it to stir up fear.

How on earth does that guarentee border restrictions espoused by the Brexiters?
Does that mean there is a border check between Northern Ireland and Britain?
Also, will Northern Irish people be allowed to work over the border and vice versa with guarenteed equal treatment?

You have no idea what you are talking about, so id like someone else to answer.

[Beezer]

Quasi-Hot take: leave has little to no true mandate at this point and the Commons could do nothing wrong by ignoring the referendum.
Problem is, everyone has been acting as it has and so soon the effect will be that Leave has had a mandate all along.

What exactly constitutes a "mandate" in your eyes? Would 55% have been sufficient? What about general elections? Is a majority of 1 MP not enough? Where do you draw the line? In light of such a lack of a mandate, do you advocate holding election after election until a party possesses not just a simple majority but a sufficient enough mandate?

We just had a referendum where people were asked about their stance on the country's EU membership. A majority voted to leave - and according to the rules of the referendum that sufficed.* End of story. This clutching at straws by focusing on a "mandate" is ridiculous.

* Entirely different question whether such basic questions ought to require a supermajority but in the context of this referendum that wasn't the case.

[ChrisDR68]

LibDems should run in the next election on Europe.

To what end? Vote for us and we'll stop the exit? Can't see that going down too well, now that Brexit is decided I don't see a single issue libdem can run on

I imagine such a position would be very popular with some voters.  Even if that number is 20% of the electorate, that's a lot more than what the LibDems are currently getting.

Exactly. It will not be enough to win an election: so neither Labour, nor Tories will be able to adopt it. But LibDems, who have no chance to form the government on their own, may well increase their representation by it, clearly distinguishing themselves from the main parties. And, being firmly pro-EU they could, actually, condition their participation in a government, if coalition is necessary, on a repeat referendum - providing an excuse for whoever the PM is to run one.

That's like telling the Lib Dems to be pig headed and going for a strategy aimed at killing the party all together.

The UK is going to leave the EU (just listen to Jeremy Corbyn's speech today if you think it's not going to happen). Being stubborn about being "pro EU" is a complete platform non-starter.

The best the Lib Dems could do is bang on about seeking as deep a cooperative relationship with our European neighbours as possible from the position of being in an independent UK.

They see themselves as internationalist after all.

[ag]

The thing that really gets me is the dishonesty and fear mongering over Northern Ireland. There is absolutely not going to be border checkpoints set up. Absolutely no way. The most likely thing to happen is  there will be a passport required to travel between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

I don't get it. What was the point of leaving the EU if not to impose ridiculous border restrictions?

There will be border restrictions, but not between Northern Ireland and the Republic!  This has been stressed over and over again but the Bremainers willfully ignored it to stir up fear.

How on earth does that guarentee border restrictions espoused by the Brexiters?
Does that mean there is a border check between Northern Ireland and Britain?
Also, will Northern Irish people be allowed to work over the border and vice versa with guarenteed equal treatment?

You have no idea what you are talking about, so id like someone else to answer.

Nobody has any idea what is going to happen. That is the point. Everything will have to be negotiated.

[yourelection]

The vote to leave was an unexpected outcome. What this means for the European Union and the UK is up in the air. The fact the such an important decision is completely given to the voters is controversial. They should have some say, but how much weight should such a referendum have?

Didn't have chance to follow this live on the forum. I have put my ideas about the Referendum on the YourElection Blog for those who may be interested...

http://www.yourelection.net/2016/06/brexit-the-uk-votes-to-leave-european-union/

[ag]

LibDems should run in the next election on Europe.

To what end? Vote for us and we'll stop the exit? Can't see that going down too well, now that Brexit is decided I don't see a single issue libdem can run on

I imagine such a position would be very popular with some voters.  Even if that number is 20% of the electorate, that's a lot more than what the LibDems are currently getting.

Exactly. It will not be enough to win an election: so neither Labour, nor Tories will be able to adopt it. But LibDems, who have no chance to form the government on their own, may well increase their representation by it, clearly distinguishing themselves from the main parties. And, being firmly pro-EU they could, actually, condition their participation in a government, if coalition is necessary, on a repeat referendum - providing an excuse for whoever the PM is to run one.

That's like telling the Lib Dems to be pig headed and going for a strategy aimed at killing the party all together.

The UK is going to leave the EU (just listen to Jeremy Corbyn's speech today if you think it's not going to happen). Being stubborn about being "pro EU" is a complete platform non-starter.

The best the Lib Dems could do is bang on about seeking as deep a cooperative relationship with our European neighbours as possible from the position of being in an independent UK.

They see themselves as internationalist after all.

48% of Brits have just voted to stay. Ok, Scots will not be a part of this anymore, and some of the rest will get reconciled to what is going on (in fact, increasingly pissed, as the consequences unravel). But there will be a good 25%-30% of the electorate that will remain very pissed. And it will be particularly concentrated in well-defined districts. For a minority party, this is a bigger niche than what they have now.

[ag]

Hell also froze over today.

A month ago this would have been photoshopped as a satirical prediction of an absurd Brexit result.

I mean, it was extremely predictable. I have been puzzling all this time, why nobody in England cared.

[jimrtex]

The thing is: there's only a little mess now, because the Remain side insisted that there would be.

On a lighter note, have a look at this:

You do realize that the country is not England.

[Phony Moderate]

Some Labour people are suggesting that Labour's main pledge at the next GE should be to take us back in. Evidently they haven't seen the Nuneaton and Bedworth result.

[ag]

Some Labour people are suggesting that Labour's main pledge at the next GE should be to take us back in. Evidently they haven't seen the Nuneaton and Bedworth result.

That is the beauty of it for LibDems. Labour cannot take this stand. LibDems can.

BTW, I would also try to poach a few particularly pro-EU MPs from both main parties.

[vileplume]

Some Labour people are suggesting that Labour's main pledge at the next GE should be to take us back in. Evidently they haven't seen the Nuneaton and Bedworth result.

That is the beauty of it for LibDems. Labour cannot take this stand. LibDems can.

BTW, I would also try to poach a few particularly pro-EU MPs from both main parties.

I seriously doubt there will be any lib dem surge though they may start to make steady progress. If the Lib Dems actually want to be an important part of our political system again they need to actually have an open and coherent ideology not be an 'all things to all people' party which was the reason they imploded during the coalition (look at the wildly diverging/random seats they held pre 2015).

[ChrisDR68]

Some Labour people are suggesting that Labour's main pledge at the next GE should be to take us back in. Evidently they haven't seen the Nuneaton and Bedworth result.

I'm re-watching the referendum results programme on BBC Parliament right now. What is striking is the geographical spread of the Leave vote and how heavy it was in certain areas.

In many, many areas in north, south and in the midlands there were Leave percentages in excess of 65%.

There was a constant stream of blue (for Leave) showing up across the bottom of the screen from about 2am the whole time.

Some very large majorities in London and Scotland has masked what a hammering Remain took in most of England and Wales.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Some Labour people are suggesting that Labour's main pledge at the next GE should be to take us back in.

That's not going to happen.

[CatoMinor]

I wonder what percent of English Labour voters voted for Brexit.

[ag]

Some Labour people are suggesting that Labour's main pledge at the next GE should be to take us back in.

That's not going to happen.

Of course not. The only party that can do this now are the LibDems.

[rob in cal]

    Anyone have any feelings on what areas had the most surprising results?  Either in terms of turnout or outcome?

[ag]

Some Labour people are suggesting that Labour's main pledge at the next GE should be to take us back in. Evidently they haven't seen the Nuneaton and Bedworth result.

That is the beauty of it for LibDems. Labour cannot take this stand. LibDems can.

BTW, I would also try to poach a few particularly pro-EU MPs from both main parties.

I seriously doubt there will be any lib dem surge though they may start to make steady progress. If the Lib Dems actually want to be an important part of our political system again they need to actually have an open and coherent ideology not be an 'all things to all people' party which was the reason they imploded during the coalition (look at the wildly diverging/random seats they held pre 2015).

They have just been gifted a very coherent ideology: Europe.

[Sozialliberal]

I was surprised by the result of this referendum. It will definitely lead to much more bureaucracy for many businesses and migrants. I don't think that it's a smart move, but I respect the British citizens' will nonetheless.

There might be withdrawal referenda in some other EU member states, but you have to take into consideration that the UK has been arguably the most eurosceptic EU member. The only other state where I think such a referendum could succeed would be Denmark.

[parochial boy]

Regarding that petition, its now been signed by almost 2 million people. So 4-5% of registered voters, and almost 1 in 8 remain voters.

I dare say the wounds this referendum opened aren't going to heal any time soon.

[ag]

Regarding that petition, its now been signed by almost 2 million people. So 4-5% of registered voters, and almost 1 in 8 remain voters.

Hopefully, these will be the new LibDem voters.