Are you a Creationist?

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Based on an old post I read while searching through my post history, claiming that JCL and Bushie were the only creationists on this forum.

I consider Theistic Evolution a form of Creationism, but I separated them since most Atlasians don't.

[afleitch]

No. I'm not focking stupid. I make no apologies for my crassness because that's what this topic boils down to.

[bedstuy]

I don't think "theistic evolutionist" is a meaningful term.  Does that make people "theistic gravity-ists" and "theistic atomic theory-ists?"  The science has nothing to do with your beliefs about supernatural phenomena.

Evolution makes no statement about God.

[afleitch]

I don't think "theistic evolutionist" is a meaningful term.  Does that make people "theistic gravity-ists" and "theistic atomic theory-ists?"  The science has nothing to do with your beliefs about supernatural phenomena.

Evolution makes no statement about God.

Probably a more succinct answer If you want to rubberstamp a deity onto evolution then go ahead. But you must be conscious of the fact that evolution has in that case been set in motion to look exactly like it has had no outside intervention at all and indeed has succinct and not so deliberate design flaws.

[Antonio the Sixth]

No. I'm not focking stupid. I make no apologies for my crassness because that's what this topic boils down to.

This.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

I don't think "theistic evolutionist" is a meaningful term.  Does that make people "theistic gravity-ists" and "theistic atomic theory-ists?"  The science has nothing to do with your beliefs about supernatural phenomena.

Evolution makes no statement about God.

Theistic evolution is a term meaning that God exists and that he guided the process or at least started it.

[RI]

Is theistic evolution a subset of old earth creationism or are there actual differences?

[bedstuy]

I don't think "theistic evolutionist" is a meaningful term.  Does that make people "theistic gravity-ists" and "theistic atomic theory-ists?"  The science has nothing to do with your beliefs about supernatural phenomena.

Evolution makes no statement about God.

Theistic evolution is a term meaning that God exists and that he guided the process or at least started it.

That is better put as you believe in 1. Evolution and 2. God.  One is science, one is religion.

[RFayette]

Theistic evolutionist.  Unlike gravity and the atomic theory, evolution and often-conflated scientific fields (like cosmology, abiogenesis, etc.) probes far deeper into fields that were once occupied solely by religion and philosophy, like the development of life. As such, I'm going to have to disagree with bedstuy when he says evolution has nothing to do with religion.  Yes, the theory certainly doesn't have to, but when a theory of origins challenges the traditional, literal interpretation of a religious text, then such terms as "theistic evolutionists" need to be used to demonstrate how both views can be harmonized. 

Personally, I find young-Earth creationists rather amusing and mostly full of BS.  There have been times I've joked about becoming a creation scientist because it seems like one of the easiest feels known to man. 

However, I also feel there's very little difference between an old-Earth creationist and a theistic evolutionist in reality.  Hugh Ross, an old-Earth creationist, explains the fossil record by saying (something of the effect) "God creates a new kind of animal when he wants to over the timeframe seen in the fossil record."  While that's certainly not how a biologist would put it, it's certainly not "science denial" to the same extent as the YECs, who are pretty willfully ignorant.

[RFayette]

Is theistic evolution a subset of old earth creationism or are there actual differences?

To clarify what I posted a few minutes earlier, there are multiple types of Old Earth Creationists.

Gap Theory old Earth creationists believe each day was a long period of time and are firmly anti-evolution.

Progressive creationists are the more common/vocal type of YEC today (such as Dr. Hugh Ross mentioned above) and are very very close to theistic evolutionists.

[bedstuy]

Theistic evolutionist.  Unlike gravity and the atomic theory, evolution and often-conflated scientific fields (like cosmology, abiogenesis, etc.) probes far deeper into fields that were once occupied solely by religion and philosophy, like the development of life. As such, I'm going to have to disagree with bedstuy when he says evolution has nothing to do with religion.  Yes, the theory certainly doesn't have to, but when a theory of origins challenges the traditional, literal interpretation of a religious text, then such terms as "theistic evolutionists" need to be used to demonstrate how both views can be harmonized. 

Personally, I find young-Earth creationists rather amusing and mostly full of BS.  There have been times I've joked about becoming a creation scientist because it seems like one of the easiest feels known to man. 

However, I also feel there's very little difference between an old-Earth creationist and a theistic evolutionist in reality.  Hugh Ross, an old-Earth creationist, explains the fossil record by saying (something of the effect) "God creates a new kind of animal when he wants to over the timeframe seen in the fossil record."  While that's certainly not how a biologist would put it, it's certainly not "science denial" to the same extent as the YECs, who are pretty willfully ignorant.

Think of it this way, religion can change to accommodate science, but science can't change to accommodate religion.  Because, science is a reflection of empirical research about actual reality, but religion is a belief-system that depends on human's spirituality and personal feelings and interpretations.

There's no reason to necessarily believe that the Bible is literally true or that the Bible should be taken to deny the fact of evolution.  So, people can believe that evolution fits with their religion, no problem.

But, you're never going to use the concept of "God" to guide how you interpret science or the empirical evidence that demonstrates evolution.  You're never going to say, "I know that God exists, therefore..."  There are no "theistic evolution" classes, or scientific articles or journals.  God has no part of science, it's just that people can believe in God and also use science. 

[RFayette]

Think of it this way, religion can change to accommodate science, but science can't change to accommodate religion.  Because, science is a reflection of empirical research about actual reality, but religion is a belief-system that depends on human's spirituality and personal feelings and interpretations.

There's no reason to necessarily believe that the Bible is literally true or that the Bible should be taken to deny the fact of evolution.  So, people can believe that evolution fits with their religion, no problem.

But, you're never going to use the concept of "God" to guide how you interpret science or the empirical evidence that demonstrates evolution.  You're never going to say, "I know that God exists, therefore..."  There are no "theistic evolution" classes, or scientific articles or journals.  God has no part of science, it's just that people can believe in God and also use science. 

Scientists don't do this in journals or classes because theistic evolutionists recognize that science and religion are two separate spheres in terms of what constitutes truth.  How could you perform a laboratory test on the creator of the universe?    But individuals definitely do interpret scientific evidence and discoveries in light of Scripture. 

Theistic evolutionist is a useful identifier because it says two things:
1) This person believes that God created the Earth.
2) This person accepts what scientists have discovered through reason and inquiry regarding the origin of the Earth, despite what the particular religion (such as Christianity or Islam) and its text literally says about Earth's creation.

I think we mostly agree and this boils down to semantics.  But the bottom line is that when a good chunk of self-identified Christians don't believe in evolution, then calling oneself a "theistic evolutionist" is necessary to identify oneself as both a believer in the God of the Bible (or a different religious text) and the scientific theory of evolution.  Because evolution is controversial and gravity isn't, we have these discussions, even if evolution is empirically true based on the standard of the scientific method.

[SNJ1985]

I am an ''Old Earth, Young Humanity'' creationist.

[RFayette]

I am an ''Old Earth, Young Humanity'' creationist.

How would this affect your interpretation of 40,000-year-old dated cave art?
http://www.livescience.com/48199-worlds-oldest-cave-art-photos.html

[tik 🪀✨]

I spent time as each of these things before learning enough to realise that at the very least it doesn't matter.

[TDAS04]

Theistic Evolutionist I guess.

[DC Al Fine]

Do you want to hear a joke?




GOD

So deep

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I thought that was Gᴏᴅ not ɢᴏᴅ.

[Murica!]

No. I'm not focking stupid. I make no apologies for my crassness because that's what this topic boils down to.

This.

[RFayette]

No. I'm not focking stupid. I make no apologies for my crassness because that's what this topic boils down to.

This.

While many YECers are ignorant, I think dogmatism is just as much a cause of it as ignorance.  One discussion I had with a YECer ended with him saying "Satan is messing with radioactive decay."  It's impossible to win with them.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

No. I'm not focking stupid. I make no apologies for my crassness because that's what this topic boils down to.

This.

While many YECers are ignorant, I think dogmatism is just as much a cause of it as ignorance.  One discussion I had with a YECer ended with him saying "Satan is messing with radioactive decay."  It's impossible to win with them.

My gf the geologist, who is an Old Earth Creationist has problems with radioactive dating.

[RFayette]

No. I'm not focking stupid. I make no apologies for my crassness because that's what this topic boils down to.

This.

While many YECers are ignorant, I think dogmatism is just as much a cause of it as ignorance.  One discussion I had with a YECer ended with him saying "Satan is messing with radioactive decay."  It's impossible to win with them.

My gf the geologist, who is an Old Earth Creationist has problems with radioactive dating.

It's one thing to be skeptical about the reliability of a dating method (though there are many different types of radioactive dating, so this enhances the reliability), but "Satan did it" is a very poor, ad-hoc argument and what I have heard too many times from YECers.

[The Dowager Mod]

'There is no reason to suppose that the world had a beginning at all. The idea that things must have a beginning is really due to the poverty of our thoughts.'--Bertrand Russell

[Dazey]

Theistic Evolutionist. Believe in a supreme being (not the Judeo-Christian God), but also support sciene and agree with the Big Bang Theory and find the theory of evolution to be valid.

[Zioneer]

I guess I'm a Theistic Evolutionist, but ultimately it doesn't concern me very much.