Tobacco Purchase Age

[Del Tachi]

19, as is currently the age in Alabama. 

[The Free North]

I'd say 16, as most states allow 16 year olds to work and drive automobiles as is. The extension of childhood by the state is abhorrent and should be contested at every opportunity. Instead of raising minimum purchase ages, we should be lowering them across the board and broadly rejecting this idea that the state should have the right to tell you what to do with your body once you're old enough to earn your own money and (theoretically) make it without recourse to parental aid.

The drinking age and the age for the use of currently illicit drugs (all of which should be legalized) should likewise be 16.

Well articulated and I agree 100%.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The difference between alcohol and marijuana and tobacco is quite clear:

Seriously this couldn't break down any simpler:

Good:


Good:


Utterly finksing disgusting worthless garbage:

You're going to have liver failure one day.

Seriously, I don't mean that maliciously. You seem to be completely unaware of the fact that alcohol is very, very bad for you, and if you support a prohibition on cigarettes than it would be very hypocritical to not support a ban on alcohol.

But alcohol is fun to use and tobacco isn't. All tobacco does is make you cough and smell bad.

[Goldwater]

"I don't see the appeal of it, so it should be banned!"

I'm surprised BRTD isn't saying heavy metal should be banned.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Keep it at 18 unless we're changing the age of majority.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

TNF's point is surprisingly compelling but until I'm just a little more compelled I'm going to stick with my view that the age of majority for most purposes should be twenty.

[Sopranos Republican]

19, as is currently the age in Alabama. 

Man, it's such a relief that we have sensible moderates such as yourself around to guide us!

[DavidB.]

18, in line with buying alcohol and marijuana.

This. Like in my country.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

"I don't see the appeal of it, so it should be banned!"

I'm surprised BRTD isn't saying heavy metal should be banned.

Obviously banning heavy metal would be quite problematic, but so is the music itself with the frequent promotion of Neo-Nazism and brutal misogyny, and in causing teen suicides.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

"I don't see the appeal of it, so it should be banned!"

I'm surprised BRTD isn't saying heavy metal should be banned.

Obviously banning heavy metal would be quite problematic, but so is the music itself with the frequent promotion of Neo-Nazism and brutal misogyny, and in causing teen suicides.

You're a punk fan right? There is (or at least was) a very large neo-Nazi punk movement which at its peak was far more influential than National Socialist Black Metal. The National Front (UK) had its own Punk youth organisation. Skrewdriver and other such punk bands fronted the far-right activist movement 'Rock Against Communism'.

My point is we can't condemn entire genres because of a minority of loathesome performers. I don't know jack about metal, but even a casual glance at Wikipedia tells me that National Socialist Black metallists have been condemned by a large amount of Death metallers.

[Samantha]

Whatever the age of majority is, which imo should be 16.

[Ebowed]

18 for purchase is fine.  I don't think there should be laws against consumption.  I take the same attitude towards alcohol and drugs which are presently illicit.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

"I don't see the appeal of it, so it should be banned!"

I'm surprised BRTD isn't saying heavy metal should be banned.

Obviously banning heavy metal would be quite problematic, but so is the music itself with the frequent promotion of Neo-Nazism and brutal misogyny, and in causing teen suicides.

You're a punk fan right? There is (or at least was) a very large neo-Nazi punk movement which at its peak was far more influential than National Socialist Black Metal. The National Front (UK) had its own Punk youth organisation. Skrewdriver and other such punk bands fronted the far-right activist movement 'Rock Against Communism'.

My point is we can't condemn entire genres because of a minority of loathesome performers. I don't know jack about metal, but even a casual glance at Wikipedia tells me that National Socialist Black metallists have been condemned by a large amount of Death metallers.

I don't listen to that kind of punk. The "incredibly specific types of post-punk music" I listen to are both listened to and played by almost exclusively by progressive SJW types.

[dead0man]

I wouldn't ban cigarettes, but I would like to make buying them more effortful - for example, by keeping tobacco products out of view in stores and contained in plain packaging, banning advertising entirely, limiting the amount that can be bought in one transaction, banning smoking in or near public places - including parks and sidewalks - and prohibiting the sale of pre-rolled cigarettes. There's no way to reduce the massive burden of chronic disease associated with long-term tobacco use without infringing on people's rights in ways that will make most of us pretty uncomfortable.

Couldn't some of the billions smokers pay in taxes go towards that?  Where does that money go anyway? 

Who cares, right?  It's just poor people addicted to drugs paying the tax, not a group a lot of people care about.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I wouldn't ban cigarettes, but I would like to make buying them more effortful - for example, by keeping tobacco products out of view in stores and contained in plain packaging, banning advertising entirely, limiting the amount that can be bought in one transaction, banning smoking in or near public places - including parks and sidewalks - and prohibiting the sale of pre-rolled cigarettes. There's no way to reduce the massive burden of chronic disease associated with long-term tobacco use without infringing on people's rights in ways that will make most of us pretty uncomfortable.

Couldn't some of the billions smokers pay in taxes go towards that?  Where does that money go anyway? 

Who cares, right?  It's just poor people addicted to drugs paying the tax, not a group a lot of people care about.

Well seeing as how they're paying the tax by complete choice...

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And on the subject of tobacco and progressive liberal hardcore bands, here's some lyrics from one:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Samantha]

And on the subject of tobacco and progressive liberal hardcore bands, here's some lyrics from one:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I miss when lyrics had nuance and rhymed.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

"I don't see the appeal of it, so it should be banned!"

I'm surprised BRTD isn't saying heavy metal should be banned.

Obviously banning heavy metal would be quite problematic, but so is the music itself with the frequent promotion of Neo-Nazism and brutal misogyny, and in causing teen suicides.

You're a punk fan right? There is (or at least was) a very large neo-Nazi punk movement which at its peak was far more influential than National Socialist Black Metal. The National Front (UK) had its own Punk youth organisation. Skrewdriver and other such punk bands fronted the far-right activist movement 'Rock Against Communism'.

My point is we can't condemn entire genres because of a minority of loathesome performers. I don't know jack about metal, but even a casual glance at Wikipedia tells me that National Socialist Black metallists have been condemned by a large amount of Death metallers.

I don't listen to that kind of punk. The "incredibly specific types of post-punk music" I listen to are both listened to and played by almost exclusively by progressive SJW types.

If only you could allow metalheads the same charity.

[politicallefty]

Just like my view on alcohol, I do not support a legal age for consumption. Otherwise, the purchase age should be set at 18. As that has been the age majority in this country for quite some time, I see no reason why the now arbitrary age of 21 should be set as the age for anything.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And on the subject of tobacco and progressive liberal hardcore bands, here's some lyrics from one:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I miss when lyrics had nuance and rhymed.

Well considering this is what the song sounds like you can see that it matters little if they rhymed.

[traininthedistance]

I wouldn't ban cigarettes, but I would like to make buying them more effortful - for example, by keeping tobacco products out of view in stores and contained in plain packaging, banning advertising entirely, limiting the amount that can be bought in one transaction, banning smoking in or near public places - including parks and sidewalks - and prohibiting the sale of pre-rolled cigarettes. There's no way to reduce the massive burden of chronic disease associated with long-term tobacco use without infringing on people's rights in ways that will make most of us pretty uncomfortable.

I realize this is super unpopular on the Atlas, but I more or less agree (and would add as clarification that the idea behind higher purchase ages is along these lines, basically to cut off the pathway by which 18-year-old high schoolers resell to freshmen at school and get 'em hooked young).

It is a fact of life that, sometimes, differing moral goods (in this case, public health and strict conceptions of negative freedom) are in irreconcilable conflict, and you just have to choose one or the other. If you choose negative freedom, I can respect that, but be honest and forthright about the trade-offs is all I ask.

(Note: while I do, TBH, personally hate tobacco with the fiery passion of a thousand suns– this is something that happens when you never get to meet your grandfather because he died of smoking-related illness five years before you were born– I do not endorse BRTD's juvenile thought process on this issue, and would appreciate it if folks could draw a distinction between that and more mature anti-tobacco stances.)

[Badger]

"I don't see the appeal of it, so it should be banned!"

I'm surprised BRTD isn't saying heavy metal should be banned.

Obviously banning heavy metal would be quite problematic, but so is the music itself with the frequent promotion of Neo-Nazism and brutal misogyny, and in causing teen suicides.

My god. You've LITERALLY gone to Jerry Falwell levels of fantasia in your demonizing heavy metal.

[The Last Northerner]

In a perfect world, 19, along with the drinking age, the draft age, the age to vote, etc.

That'd allow people who are clearly old enough to make that choice make it while keeping it out of high schools.

I was going to vote 18 along with alcohol and all but this post made me rethink my position.

Congrats, you made someone reconsider their opinion on the internet.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

"I don't see the appeal of it, so it should be banned!"

I'm surprised BRTD isn't saying heavy metal should be banned.

Obviously banning heavy metal would be quite problematic, but so is the music itself with the frequent promotion of Neo-Nazism and brutal misogyny, and in causing teen suicides.

My god. You've LITERALLY gone to Jerry Falwell levels of fantasia in your demonizing heavy metal.

LOL. I think it's safe to say if he knew of it while he was alive Falwell would not have approved of SJW hardcore, or anything that met the standard of "all liberal, all the time".

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Does anyone really want to start a hipster Christian sjw metal band to mess with brtd's mind?