Do we have souls?

[afleitch]

No.

I suppose you can theorise a soul as a sort of ‘spiritual facsimile’ of your conscious being that isn’t subject to death, you may even wish for material thoughts and the manner in which you identify ‘self’ to be something ‘other’ than the vessel of your body. If there is a soul, there is no evidence that that it is ‘informing’ you in a manner different from or in addition to your own consciousness. If your soul had even a very limited. If the soul is acting behind the scenes, then it’s following exactly the same processes as your body and isn’t guiding you any more or any less than your consciousness is in making moral choices. Therefore I don’t believe you can say that it exists independently or even co-dependently of your consciousness. When your brain can no longer sustain the electrochemical patterns that make up your consciousness, the 'you' part of the physical process dies. Consciousness doesn’t go anywhere when it ceases any more than the ‘flame’ or the ‘spin’ or the ‘fall’ goes somewhere when the energy that sustains it ceases. It just stops. And that’s okay.

Consciousness, laden with materialism can still be beautiful.

Identity is part of consciousness. As a gay man, I find other men beautiful and fulfilling and I enjoy ‘doing the fulfilling’ as a man. Yet I have a paternalistic drive, one that cannot ever be fulfilled strictly biologically. It cannot ever accord with my physicality or my consciousness. I am a gay man who is married to a gay man and I would like to raise children with him. I can only ever do that through adoption, or through surrogacy and only because those options are available to me. If they were not available, then my desire to raise children with my partner would still be there. I don’t think I could argue that this is somehow ‘distinct’ from my biology.

I also think it is somewhat dangerous to suggest that the answers to identity issues, whether to do with sexuality or trans* matters need to be found outside of biology and placed within metaphysics, because compartmentalising identity into something outside of the ‘self’ and outside of scientific and sociological study is effectively (and I know this may not be the intent) dismisses it as worthy of that level of attention or afforded a level of protection. It’s a very heteronormative thing to do; ‘oh you’re a trans man or a man who loves other men; that’s different, it’s identity related; let’s look outside of biology’.  Furthermore ‘souls’ (being the metaphysical playthings that they are) are often subject to people of a religious/spiritual persuasion saying they know more about your soul than you do; it’s from god, or it’s karma that you’re reborn as x and so in. So you can end up losing part of your identity to people with power (see homosexuals being pressured to physically change their gender in Iran for example)

[afleitch]

I definitely feel so, and I understand that it is one of those things that we will never get a true answer on

That's new

[afleitch]

I definitely feel so, and I understand that it is one of those things that we will never get a true answer on

That's new

?

It's the first time I've been aware of you stating that you believed that humans have souls, that's all.

[afleitch]

Long after we are dead we will still be, and that is true no matter what beliefs one may hold about the nature of paraphysical existence, even if that belief is that there is no such thing.

We cannot 'be' after we are dead, because the entire definition of what is it means to 'be' is retained by the living. In my opinion that is retained by each living person, but even if we consider the entirety of our species (in the manner that one can say Shakespeare or Hitler never really 'go away' or even an ancestor if you care to find him in some forgotten record) as being the 'retainer', when we are all gone who is left to ponder us? Who is left to say that we all 'be'?

If we can 'be', independent of our lives as individuals or as a species, why can't other processes 'be'? (and the universe is nothing but processes) why not viruses, or cats, cascading rocks or extinguished flames or extinguished suns? Why can't they 'be', or do we simply exclude them in order to give us as a species some self reverence?

Human beings are exceptionally self-aggrandising. Claiming for ourselves a 'soul' is nothing more than an extension of that. 

[afleitch]

The soup isnt a biological or material realm; it's a spiritual realm, & I think about it when I visit such realm when I sleep, and we will spend eternity.

You don't visit anything when you sleep; it's a product of your self. If you've never been able to see, you have completely different sensory dreams to someone who has been able to see and recall imagery.

Do you happen to remember the eternity before you were born?

[afleitch]

True Federalist is the expert on this. But, wasnt Moses and Jesus who were great profits never talked about eternity before they were born, they talked about it in the future sense. Really after judgement day.

But purgatory or dimensions where souls go, there is a belief there is one. But, religion is a ritual anyways, there may or may not be. And to overcome obstacles and help heal the living when someone dies.

Eternity includes the past.

[afleitch]

Yeah, that Jesus never talked about either before he was born. He was implanted in virgin Mary's tomb.

?

[afleitch]

I defer to Bible on what eternity is like before birth. I dont wish that my dead relatives are just dead.

Why? Why just that book, just that explanation (other than it being the most pleasing for you). I'm asking you to think just a little; you didn't exist before you were born. You accept that. So I ask you, how did it make you feel?

[afleitch]

No.

OK, but that doesnt prove we dont. SPIRITUALITY is something that is real . And prayers are answered.

No. That's confirmation bias. Thinking that your prayers are answered is not evidence for them being answered.

You can be a Christian and pray and feel that your problem gets answered. If that feeling was 'proof' it would mean that god answers your prayers.

You can be a Christian and pray and feel that your problem doesn't get answered. If that feeling was 'proof' it would mean that god doesn't answer your prayers.

You can be a non-Christian and pray to a different god and feel that your problem get's answered. If that feeling was 'proof' it would mean that another god answers your prayers.

You can be a non-Christian and make an offering to nature or your ancestors and feel that your problem gets answered. If that feeling was 'proof' it would mean that nature/ancestors answer prayers and not gods.

You can be a non-Christian and not pray and feel that your problem gets answered. If that feeling was 'proof' it would mean that prayer, offerings, appeals, sacrifices and magic have absolutely no bearing on whether or not your problem gets answered.