What if No Watergate?
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  What if No Watergate?
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Author Topic: What if No Watergate?  (Read 4808 times)
Yelnoc
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« on: June 08, 2015, 04:52:17 PM »

Imagine the Watergate break-ins are successfully covered. Nixon is afforded the time to collect and edit his papers, recordings, and memoirs and publish them in a way that portrays him in a favorable light. How is Nixon remembered? How does that affect the perception of the post-65 civil rights and anti-war movements (and other Nixon opponents)?

And if you want, of course, how does removing Watergate affect the political situation?
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2015, 04:49:26 AM »

For all we now, the new upcoming aircraft carrier design of the U.S. Navy would have be named the Richard M. Nixon-class instead of Gerald R. Ford-class.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2015, 07:29:27 AM »

With his naval career, he certainly would have had a ship named after him were it not for Watergate. However, he never was a combat officer, and his association with Zumwalt (CNO under Nixon) would probably keep a supercarrier from being named after him.  It would be more likely he'd be the namesake of either the America (LHA-6) or Tripoli (LHA-7) would be named after Nixon, since Zumwalt's High-Low plan, which Nixon approved of, called for building only a few supercarriers and building more smaller carriers.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2015, 12:52:45 PM »

Instead of being remembered for scandal, Nixon would have gone down in history as a transitional President, as the President who opened up diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union and China, as a far sighted President who realized that for the future that good relations with the Soviet Union and with the People's Republic of China would be paramount for the future of the United States.

He also would have become the first and only person to date who had served two full terms as Vice President and two full terms as President. 

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Sir Mohamed
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2015, 01:28:55 PM »

Instead of being remembered for scandal, Nixon would have gone down in history as a transitional President, as the President who opened up diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union and China, as a far sighted President who realized that for the future that good relations with the Soviet Union and with the People's Republic of China would be paramount for the future of the United States.

He also would have become the first and only person to date who had served two full terms as Vice President and two full terms as President. 



This sounds about right. Nixon wasn't a bad guy in all ways. His detente was remarkable and his record in domestic affairs is not not bad either.

Without Nixon resigning, I am confindent that the GOP would not have turned much to the right as it did under Reagan. The moderate wing began to decline after Watergate. However, I'm sure that a Republican would have won the election of 1976.
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ScottieF
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2015, 09:17:05 AM »

Nixon would be remembered as a near-great president who successfully ushered in a Republican realignment. Ronald Reagan is elected in 1976, but kicked out of office in 1980 due to the poor economic climate.
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Sumner 1868
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2015, 12:18:44 PM »

Watergate had many effects on the political atmosphere. A lot of rally-around-the-flag brainwashing tactics were obsolete from the scandal, the public gave more scrutiny to politicians, and illegal activities by intelligence agencies were exposed. You'd likely see a more autocratic political climate without the breach in trust by Watergate.
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Cryptic
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2015, 12:42:53 PM »

Nixon would be remembered as a near-great president who successfully ushered in a Republican realignment. Ronald Reagan is elected in 1976, but kicked out of office in 1980 due to the poor economic climate.

This is what I think too. Nixon replaces Reagan as the former President the GOP venerates today and Reagan's legacy is tarnished by getting elected in '76 and having to deal with the economic downturn.  
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2015, 03:50:48 PM »

Without Watergate, Carter would never become President. And that alone opens a whole can of butterflies.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2015, 02:02:05 AM »

Nixon would be remembered as a near-great president who successfully ushered in a Republican realignment. Ronald Reagan is elected in 1976, but kicked out of office in 1980 due to the poor economic climate.

The shift in the GOP's mindset was already well underway by the 1970's. Money matters and most of the power and influence was centered in the Southwest, Texas and California, not in Wall Street as much as it used to (40%-50% instead of 85% influence). This meant that it would begin to reflect the demands of the money makers of that new political base since that is where both the new GOP voters and new GOP money was, namely, agriculture, oil and defense industries. Nixon was supported by these people, but they began to grumble even before he left the picture, once he was gone, they were going to turn to someone they viewed as one of their own. Reagan fit that bill to a T.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2015, 08:43:30 AM »

I dont think Ronald Reagan would have won. Goldwater GOPers like Nixon or Reagan were pro captalism, anti big govt. 3 terms of Nixon & Ford would have been enough. Case for Ted Kennedy would have been made.
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Sir Mohamed
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2015, 04:58:59 AM »

I dont think Ronald Reagan would have won. Goldwater GOPers like Nixon or Reagan were pro captalism, anti big govt. 3 terms of Nixon & Ford would have been enough. Case for Ted Kennedy would have been made.

Nixon was almost nothing like Goldwater. Nixon was far more moderate and liberal. He would be to liberal for the GOP of our day.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2015, 08:16:19 PM »

After Nixon's Presidency?

I see something like this:

1977-1981: Vice Pres. Gerald Ford(R-MI)/Director George H. W. Bush(R-TX)[1]
1981-1989: Rep. Morris Udall(D-AZ)/Gov. Jerry Brown(D-CA)[2]
1989-1993: Vice Pres. Jerry Brown(D-CA)*^/Sen. Jimmy Carter(D-GA)[3]
1993-2001: Senator Paul Tsongas(R-MA)/Gov. Ross Perot(R-TX)[4]
2001-2009: Sen. Jim Webb(D-VA)/Mayor David Dinkins(D-NY)[5]
2009-2017: Gov. Howard Dean(R-VT)/Sen. Pat Choate(R-IL)[6]
2017-2021: Sen. Jeff Flake(R-AZ)/Rep. Justin Amash[7]
2021-2029: Sen. Ben Chandler(D-KY)/Gov. Carte Goodwin(D-WV)[8]

*^Retires

The Democrats become more populist, whereas the Republicans start trending leftwards.
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darthebearnc
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2015, 09:45:11 PM »

After Nixon's Presidency?

I see something like this:

1977-1981: Vice Pres. Gerald Ford(R-MI)/Director George H. W. Bush(R-TX)[1]
1981-1989: Rep. Morris Udall(D-AZ)/Gov. Jerry Brown(D-CA)[2]
1989-1993: Vice Pres. Jerry Brown(D-CA)*^/Sen. Jimmy Carter(D-GA)[3]
1993-2001: Senator Paul Tsongas(R-MA)/Gov. Ross Perot(R-TX)[4]
2001-2009: Sen. Jim Webb(D-VA)/Mayor David Dinkins(D-NY)[5]
2009-2017: Gov. Howard Dean(R-VT)/Sen. Pat Choate(R-IL)[6]
2017-2021: Sen. Jeff Flake(R-AZ)/Rep. Justin Amash[7]
2021-2029: Sen. Ben Chandler(D-KY)/Gov. Carte Goodwin(D-WV)[8]

*^Retires

The Democrats become more populist, whereas the Republicans start trending leftwards.

Paul Tsongas is kind of a Democrat, FYI Tongue
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Dancing with Myself
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« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2015, 01:35:38 AM »

Without Watergate Nixon would go down as a solid and underrated President. One of the better foreign policy Presidents we would have had (that was his main focus,) and a middle of the road domestic President.  It would all depend on what he gets done in term 2. The economy would sour but if he had support with the 1972 elected congress people and what Dem support he had he could have took on the recession.

Plus he could have potentially got healthcare done, but that's a huge what if. It would depend on Teddy and the time done. Before 74 midterms possibly, after? Who knows.

In 1976 I see a Rep being favored. Carter would have no chance to be as successful due to the no need for an outsider. He could have done okay but the public would have craved something else in 1976. See Lloyd Bentsen, Teddy, or a moderate getting it.

Rep wise Reagan would run but Ford (if he wants the job,) Connally or a Nixon guy would get it. With Nixon in control and still popular I see Reagan not getting it.

The Republican would prob win comfortably in 1976. 1977-81 would be not as rough as with Carter but not a solid time either. Maybe no Iran or not as bad but the economy would go down so would gas and energy. A Dem would win in 1981 and last through 88 due to voter fatigue.  See it being Teddy, Mondale or Brown.
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jfern
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« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2015, 01:37:13 AM »

Reagan is at best a one term President. No Bushes. No Clintons. America is much better off.
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Sir Mohamed
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2016, 10:47:47 AM »
« Edited: January 22, 2016, 10:51:05 AM by MohamedChalid »

A big question that has not been discussed yet: What would have happened with Vietnam?

After the 1973 peace accords, Nixon made it clear that he would resume bombing if the Commies violate the treaty. He would likely have done so and military aid to the South wouldn’t have been cut that much (or at all). Nixon (and later Ford) couldn’t do help much anymore because his position as president was seriously weakened by Watergate. And the opposition to any further American effort in Vietnam rose in Congress after the 1974 midterms, which became a distater for the GOP Administration - because of Watergate.
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Higgs
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« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2016, 01:09:02 AM »

After Nixon's Presidency?

I see something like this:

1977-1981: Vice Pres. Gerald Ford(R-MI)/Director George H. W. Bush(R-TX)[1]
1981-1989: Rep. Morris Udall(D-AZ)/Gov. Jerry Brown(D-CA)[2]
1989-1993: Vice Pres. Jerry Brown(D-CA)*^/Sen. Jimmy Carter(D-GA)[3]
1993-2001: Senator Paul Tsongas(R-MA)/Gov. Ross Perot(R-TX)[4]
2001-2009: Sen. Jim Webb(D-VA)/Mayor David Dinkins(D-NY)[5]
2009-2017: Gov. Howard Dean(R-VT)/Sen. Pat Choate(R-IL)[6]
2017-2021: Sen. Jeff Flake(R-AZ)/Rep. Justin Amash[7]
2021-2029: Sen. Ben Chandler(D-KY)/Gov. Carte Goodwin(D-WV)[8]

*^Retires

The Democrats become more populist, whereas the Republicans start trending leftwards.

I don't see how Howard Dean can become a Republican, can you elaborate? So is the GOP to the left of the Democrats in this timeline?
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