God and evolution

[MissCatholic]

I get the sense from the religious right that you cant believe in both. am i correct?

[Blue Rectangle]

I get the sense from the religious right that you cant believe in both. am i correct?

No.

You can't believe a 100% literal version of the Bible and believe in evolution, but that's a different question.

[MasterJedi]

No

[John Dibble]

No. Tons of people believe that evolution was the process by which God created life.

[bejkuy]

What's the difference between a hypocrite and a hyercrite?

[MAS117]

NO

[John Dibble]

What's the difference between a hypocrite and a hyercrite?

Well, for one thing hypocrite is a word, hyercrite is not.

[Democratic Hawk]

No. Tons of people believe that evolution was the process by which God created life.

I subscribe to that

Dave

[J.R. Brown]

No. Tons of people believe that evolution was the process by which God created life.

I subscribe to that

Dave

I alos believe that it is possible that divine guidance could have been involved in the theory of evolution.

[Hitchabrut]

I believe that you are incorrect, but it is certainly possible not to take the Bible literally, although I do.

[Gabu]

I get the sense from the religious right that you cant believe in both. am i correct?

I get a lot of senses from the religious right, although most of them involve sensing the fact that I want to punch one of them in the face.   No, there is nothing contradictory or hypocritical about believing in both God and evolution.

[J. J.]

You are basically asking two questions:

1.  Did God create the universe?

2.  Is the Bible literally true?

You can very easily answer "yes" to #1 and "no" to #2.  That is how I would answer.

[Erc]

The creationists try to create this false dichotomy between believing in God and accepting the truth of evolution.

It's entirely bogus, but it's scared half of the population of the United States into rejecting evolution.

Scary, n'est-ce pas?

[Ebowed]

The creationists try to create this false dichotomy between believing in God and accepting the truth of evolution.

It's entirely bogus, but it's scared half of the population of the United States into rejecting evolution.

Scary, n'est-ce pas?

I believe it has more to do with common sense and consistency than anything else.  If Jesus is the son of Adam, as the New Testament states, then Adam must have existed -- surely any theistic evolutionist who compromises on creation but believes in the resurrection of Jesus must concede this.  So the question is, what forms of evolution have taken place?  Did humans evolve from apes (or do they share a common ancestor with them)?  Or maybe only lesser forms of evolution are correct?  This isn't an issue that you can simplify by saying "I believe the Bible, but accept the truth of evolution."  If the Bible says there was no such thing as death and suffering before the existance of man, but the dates that fossils are given would say otherwise, are you showing your priorities?

[Gabu]

The creationists try to create this false dichotomy between believing in God and accepting the truth of evolution.

It's entirely bogus, but it's scared half of the population of the United States into rejecting evolution.

Scary, n'est-ce pas?

I believe it has more to do with common sense and consistency than anything else.  If Jesus is the son of Adam, as the New Testament states, then Adam must have existed -- surely any theistic evolutionist who compromises on creation but believes in the resurrection of Jesus must concede this.  So the question is, what forms of evolution have taken place?  Did humans evolve from apes (or do they share a common ancestor with them)?  Or maybe only lesser forms of evolution are correct?  This isn't an issue that you can simplify by saying "I believe the Bible, but accept the truth of evolution."  If the Bible says there was no such thing as death and suffering before the existance of man, but the dates that fossils are given would say otherwise, are you showing your priorities?

Well, the Bible also says that Jesus was both the son of God and God Himself, which raises more logical problems than you can shake a stick at, and that's not even considering the ethical issues of taking incest to a new level by having sex with your mother and subsequently fathering yourself.

[John Dibble]

The creationists try to create this false dichotomy between believing in God and accepting the truth of evolution.

It's entirely bogus, but it's scared half of the population of the United States into rejecting evolution.

Scary, n'est-ce pas?

I believe it has more to do with common sense and consistency than anything else.  If Jesus is the son of Adam, as the New Testament states, then Adam must have existed -- surely any theistic evolutionist who compromises on creation but believes in the resurrection of Jesus must concede this.  So the question is, what forms of evolution have taken place?  Did humans evolve from apes (or do they share a common ancestor with them)?  Or maybe only lesser forms of evolution are correct?  This isn't an issue that you can simplify by saying "I believe the Bible, but accept the truth of evolution."  If the Bible says there was no such thing as death and suffering before the existance of man, but the dates that fossils are given would say otherwise, are you showing your priorities?

Well, the Bible also says that Jesus was both the son of God and God Himself, which raises more logical problems than you can shake a stick at, and that's not even considering the ethical issues of taking incest to a new level by having sex with your mother and subsequently fathering yourself.

Which leads us to the conclusion that God is his own grandpa.

[phk]

Here is a scale that shows how you look at the Bible and other religous stuf.

Literal -------------- Metaphorical ---------------  Bullsh**t


Metaphorical to Bullsh**t is where science is compatible

[angus]

I think those who believe in both, or neither, don't have any greater issues than those who think there are two "r"s in hypocrite. 

I believe in all the gods, by the way, but I haven't decided on a favorite yet.  As far as evolution, it's not a "believe in..." kinda thing, like gods are.  I think your head is totally screwed up, Miss Catholic, but I'm no psychiatrist.  I can give you the number of mine, if you're interested.  I will say that I think he's more screwed up than either you are or I am.  Anyway, I think you missed the point of both science and religion. 

[they don't love you like i love you]

nope. I believe in both too.

[opebo]

I think your head is totally screwed up, Miss Catholic, but I'm no psychiatrist.  I can give you the number of mine, if you're interested.  I will say that I think he's more screwed up than either you are or I am.

I once visited a psychiatrist, back in graduate school, in hopes of convincing her I was crazy and needed disability subsidies (one of those periods the parents weren't forking over reasonably).  A friend had just gotten it for herion addiction, so I thought I might get some for general lackadaisicalness.  Well, I explained how I'd never had a job, couldn't 'handle' work, was afraid to take my car in to have the oil changed, etc., and towards the end of our hour she asked me - I thought in a rather sneering tone - 'do you come from a rich family?'  I probably should have lied, but she had me.  No disabilty.

[John Dibble]

I think your head is totally screwed up, Miss Catholic, but I'm no psychiatrist.  I can give you the number of mine, if you're interested.  I will say that I think he's more screwed up than either you are or I am.

I once visited a psychiatrist, back in graduate school, in hopes of convincing her I was crazy and needed disability subsidies (one of those periods the parents weren't forking over reasonably).  A friend had just gotten it for herion addiction, so I thought I might get some for general lackadaisicalness.  Well, I explained how I'd never had a job, couldn't 'handle' work, was afraid to take my car in to have the oil changed, etc., and towards the end of our hour she asked me - I thought in a rather sneering tone - 'do you come from a rich family?'  I probably should have lied, but she had me.  No disabilty.

I'm sorry to inform you that you have 'Spoiled Brat Syndrome'. The only cure is to cut yourself off from your parents and get a job. Call me in about 3 years and we'll have your follow up.

[angus]

I think your head is totally screwed up, Miss Catholic, but I'm no psychiatrist.  I can give you the number of mine, if you're interested.  I will say that I think he's more screwed up than either you are or I am.

I once visited a psychiatrist, back in graduate school, in hopes of convincing her I was crazy and needed disability subsidies (one of those periods the parents weren't forking over reasonably).  A friend had just gotten it for herion addiction, so I thought I might get some for general lackadaisicalness.  Well, I explained how I'd never had a job, couldn't 'handle' work, was afraid to take my car in to have the oil changed, etc., and towards the end of our hour she asked me - I thought in a rather sneering tone - 'do you come from a rich family?'  I probably should have lied, but she had me.  No disabilty.

I first visited a shrink in grad school as well.  On the advice of my advisor, mind you!  Ouch.  anyway, the bitch was somewhat condescending to me as well.  I've since developed friendships (well, acquaintanceships) with a few, and have decided that they're no more sane than the rest of us.  but interesting to talk to, generally.  I haven't seen my guy in almost 9 months (what with San Francisco being a 2600 mile drive at the moment) but he's on my "network" so the next time I'm out there I'm sure I'll exploit his services.  Kill an hour.  Make him richer.  what the hell. 

As for some non-psychobabble wisdom, Dibble, as usual, is right on.

[opebo]

I'm sorry to inform you that you have 'Spoiled Brat Syndrome'. The only cure is to cut yourself off from your parents and get a job. Call me in about 3 years and we'll have your follow up.

As for some non-psychobabble wisdom, Dibble, as usual, is right on.

Well, actually that was almost precisely what the professional psychobabbler said.  In fact I was rather disappointed she didn't try harder.  Any grouch could've said 'get a job' - didn't need the psychology degree.

[Blue Rectangle]

As far as evolution, it's not a "believe in..." kinda thing, like gods are.

Here's how I roughly break it down:

Science
Describes observed phenomena.  It does not tell "why" but "in what way".  For example, a theory of gravitation does not tell why an apple falls, but describes the motion of the apple.  Science cannot truly prove anything that happened in the past, such as whether evolution occurred, but it can use theories based on current observations to extrapolate back to what might have happened.

Religion
Concerns beliefs that cannot be proven or disproven and therefore rely on faith.  Religion, like science, is free to use theory, reason and extrapolation to arrive at conclusions that are not directly based on faith.  However, it should always be kept in mind that these conclusions were derived from faith and therefore are not scientific.

Philosophy
This is a broad topic.  Philosophy, in terms of methods of reason, is used by both Science and Religion.  Other branches of philosophy, such as metaphysics, are separate from science and religion.  Metaphysics can use observed phenomena or unprovable faith as starting points, but does not use them as Science and Religion do.  It's a gray area, though, and a lot of Philosophy has strayed too far and become bad Science or bad Religion.

Here's an example (the existence of God) of how mixing fields improperly can lead to problems:
Start with a scientific look at the existence of God.  We have no observable evidence of God's existence, therefore we have no basis to theorize that God does exist.  Good so far, but now insert Philosophy.  Let's assume that only the observable exists (an unprovable assumption and absolutely not Science).  Since God is not observable, he does not exist.  This is a logical conclusion, given our assumption, but that does not make it true.  Claims that this conclusion is "scientific" and that it has been "proven true" are themselves false.

[John Dibble]

I'm sorry to inform you that you have 'Spoiled Brat Syndrome'. The only cure is to cut yourself off from your parents and get a job. Call me in about 3 years and we'll have your follow up.

As for some non-psychobabble wisdom, Dibble, as usual, is right on.

Well, actually that was almost precisely what the professional psychobabbler said.  In fact I was rather disappointed she didn't try harder.  Any grouch could've said 'get a job' - didn't need the psychology degree.

Well, perhaps you should follow up on that advice.