Opinion of "Liberal Triumphalism"
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  Opinion of "Liberal Triumphalism"
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Question: Opinion of "Liberal Triumphalism"
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Freedom Theology
 
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Horrible Theology
 
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Author Topic: Opinion of "Liberal Triumphalism"  (Read 1225 times)
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BRTD
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« on: June 11, 2015, 01:11:31 AM »

It's not an official phrase, but it's a type of theology many obviously adhere to and that I've heard many sermons promoting. Imagine someone passionately preaching something like this:

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So basically it's the evangelical triumphalist view that one day Jesus will return and rule the world again and all other religions and belief systems will be abolished, but unlike the fundamentalist version it's more that the whole world will become some sort of liberal paradise, with "all liberal, all the time" not being just a slogan but basically how things will always be. Of course this no doubt means fundamentalism gets abolished too, but that's not really the focus. But when you think about it...this is indeed the logical conclusion of liberal evangelicalism. So of course I vote FT.
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afleitch
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2015, 05:56:23 AM »

How can you say fundamentalism get's abolished too, when this theology wishes for all other belief systems and all other religions to be, as you put it 'abolished.'

That's the very definition of religious fundamentalism, whether it's a conservative hellhole or liberal hot air.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2015, 09:27:23 AM »

That's a horrific thing to say. 
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BRTD
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2015, 10:25:56 AM »

How can you say fundamentalism get's abolished too, when this theology wishes for all other belief systems and all other religions to be, as you put it 'abolished.'

That's the very definition of religious fundamentalism, whether it's a conservative hellhole or liberal hot air.

Well never heard of "fundamentalist" ever used to describe liberal Christianity. But it's obvious what I mean. Repressive conservative Christianity gets abolished. Fits in with the frequent preaching about how people who promote that distort and pervert the message of Christ and that liberal Christianity is the real truth to follow.

That's a horrific thing to say. 

Which part?
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afleitch
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2015, 12:03:53 PM »

Again, how is a belief system that wants all other belief systems, ideologies and systems of non belief abolished allowing only one ideology (it's own) to exist, not fundamentalist?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2015, 12:23:05 PM »

Again, how is a belief system that wants all other belief systems, ideologies and systems of non belief abolished allowing only one ideology (it's own) to exist, not fundamentalist?

I think "totalitarian" is the most appropriate term.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2015, 04:25:43 PM »

Again, how is a belief system that wants all other belief systems, ideologies and systems of non belief abolished allowing only one ideology (it's own) to exist, not fundamentalist?

What definition of "fundamentalism" are you using?

It sounds more like you are using fundamentalist, the way various leftists/rightists use fascist/communist, not the historic definition from the days of Machen and Fosdick, nor the more recent "separated, ultraconservative, low church Protestant" of more recent years.
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afleitch
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2015, 04:37:43 PM »

Again, how is a belief system that wants all other belief systems, ideologies and systems of non belief abolished allowing only one ideology (it's own) to exist, not fundamentalist?

What definition of "fundamentalism" are you using?

It sounds more like you are using fundamentalist, the way various leftists/rightists use fascist/communist, not the historic definition from the days of Machen and Fosdick, nor the more recent "separated, ultraconservative, low church Protestant" of more recent years.

Why is there an argument over semantics? I think the point I was trying to make was pretty clear.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2015, 04:54:38 PM »

Again, how is a belief system that wants all other belief systems, ideologies and systems of non belief abolished allowing only one ideology (it's own) to exist, not fundamentalist?

What definition of "fundamentalism" are you using?

It sounds more like you are using fundamentalist, the way various leftists/rightists use fascist/communist, not the historic definition from the days of Machen and Fosdick, nor the more recent "separated, ultraconservative, low church Protestant" of more recent years.

Why is there an argument over semantics? I think the point I was trying to make was pretty clear.

The entire debate between you and BRTD hinges on the definition of fundamentalism. If "fundamentalism" means "separated, ultraconservative, low church Protestantism", then by definition, BRTD's view is not fundamentalist. You dispute that with him, so I assume you define it differently.

So I ask again: what is your definition of fundamentalist?
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afleitch
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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2015, 05:05:42 PM »
« Edited: June 11, 2015, 05:10:13 PM by afleitch »

Again, how is a belief system that wants all other belief systems, ideologies and systems of non belief abolished allowing only one ideology (it's own) to exist, not fundamentalist?

What definition of "fundamentalism" are you using?

It sounds more like you are using fundamentalist, the way various leftists/rightists use fascist/communist, not the historic definition from the days of Machen and Fosdick, nor the more recent "separated, ultraconservative, low church Protestant" of more recent years.

Why is there an argument over semantics? I think the point I was trying to make was pretty clear.

The entire debate between you and BRTD hinges on the definition of fundamentalism. If "fundamentalism" means "separated, ultraconservative, low church Protestantism", then by definition, BRTD's view is not fundamentalist. You dispute that with him, so I assume you define it differently.

So I ask again: what is your definition of fundamentalist?

I genuinely have no idea what on earth you are talking about. Is this an American thing? 'Fundamentalist' is usually used at least in day to day language 'here' to pejoratively refer to philosophies (not just religions) perceived carrying a self pretence of being the sole objective truth. I just stated that it is an ideologically fundamentalist position, or as Antonio perhaps better put it 'totalitarian' position to want all other belief systems, ideologies and systems of non belief abolished in favour of your own.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2015, 06:48:49 PM »

Again, how is a belief system that wants all other belief systems, ideologies and systems of non belief abolished allowing only one ideology (it's own) to exist, not fundamentalist?

What definition of "fundamentalism" are you using?

It sounds more like you are using fundamentalist, the way various leftists/rightists use fascist/communist, not the historic definition from the days of Machen and Fosdick, nor the more recent "separated, ultraconservative, low church Protestant" of more recent years.

Why is there an argument over semantics? I think the point I was trying to make was pretty clear.

The entire debate between you and BRTD hinges on the definition of fundamentalism. If "fundamentalism" means "separated, ultraconservative, low church Protestantism", then by definition, BRTD's view is not fundamentalist. You dispute that with him, so I assume you define it differently.

So I ask again: what is your definition of fundamentalist?

I genuinely have no idea what on earth you are talking about. Is this an American thing? 'Fundamentalist' is usually used at least in day to day language 'here' to pejoratively refer to philosophies (not just religions) perceived carrying a self pretence of being the sole objective truth. I just stated that it is an ideologically fundamentalist position, or as Antonio perhaps better put it 'totalitarian' position to want all other belief systems, ideologies and systems of non belief abolished in favour of your own.

Ok fair enough. Fundamentalist in North America can also mean a particular sort of conservative Protestant, that tries to cut themselves out of the culture at large, which is presumably caused the confusion.
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BRTD
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« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2015, 10:16:51 PM »

"Fundamentalist" in the US basically means "conservative evangelical", so replace "fundamentalism" with "conservative Christianity" in that post to get the point.

As for abolishing the other belief systems, that is the only logical conclusion. Think about it, if Jesus did return tomorrow, and thus proved empirically Christianity to be the true belief system, how could the other religions and belief systems survive? Now you may not believe Christianity to be true and thus believe that will ever happen. Fine. But it's not about totalitarianism as prove of objective truth in this instance.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2015, 10:37:12 PM »

Among other issues, Jesus told the apostles the poor will always be with them. You will never be able to eliminate poverty entirely. No matter how hard you try to build a utopia it can never stand in this world because man's will is directed toward selfishness; there will always be strife, struggle, and poverty no matter how many preachers you shame on social media.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2015, 06:31:04 AM »

So BRTD is endorsing genocide?
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they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2015, 11:31:22 AM »


Of course not. Jesus isn't going to kill anyone.
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