Opinion of death metal and black metal

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Much better than As bad as that crap you are listening to, BRTD.

And more similar than he realizes, especially in the reliance on guttural intentionally unintelligible lyrics. The scenester "values" ostensibly at odds with death metal doesn't change the likeness of the music itself.

Not that he'd ever admit it, let alone to himself, because Dudefest and whatever.

Uh, but my music has no gutteral vocals. Just because the lyrics aren't always intelligible doesn't make the vocals gutteral style or mean they sound the same, because they don't.

Like do you seriously think the vocals in this and this sound the same?

Also why do metalheads have the inverse attitude? They usually hate my music just as much as I hate metal.

Heh. A number of the song links you've posted would contrdict you. That execrable cover of whole lotta love comes immediately to mind. The fact you found two songs to prove the exception doesn't disprove the (general) rule.

Uh, this is the Whole Lotta Love cover. Those are NOT death metal vocals or gutteral in any way. They're actually quite high pitched, the exact opposite of death metal vocals.

Oh here's a prefect example: the song I'm listening to now

Now aside from the vocals also being nothing like death or black metal, it's also quite different in how there's mosh parts and breakdowns everywhere. And that's not just something in this one song, it's a defining trait of the genre. You find it EVERWHERE in hardcore, even the pop punk style hardcore bands...and just about nowhere in metal. Some breakdowns maybe, but I've never heard a metal song with intentionally moshy parts. Just about EVERY hardcore song has some type of drastic tempo change in it even the insanely short ones (hell, this is the perfect example), death metal bands usually play the same thing through the whole song.

Oh! NOW I see it perfectly! There isn't any similarity in vocals whatsoever between these genres. At all! It is completely night and day. Despite being more than a tad familiar over 30 years with many genres of metal and punk, how could I ever fail to notice the COMPLETE disparity between these music types.

LOL! I showed a few friends your links and, while we all agreed of course there was some difference with Kid Dynamite, the other two links are VERY similar, and your inability (unwillingness?) to acknowledge the similarity was literally lulz-worthy.

It's like you have to construct some artificial purity fence around every aspect of the sub-cultures you worship in order to protect your own sense of self-identity. Heaven forbid the music that decorates the scene in which you've immersed yourself have any strong influence from the music of a non-progressive, affirming, etc. sub-culture. It's like you're.......a cultural vegan in your insistence on purity despite, sorry to say, your music was prepared on surfaces and tools also used to produce metal.

I imagine your life-view would go into an unalterable tailspin if you ever accepted that your favorite bands took musical cues from proto-death bands like Slayer (even if they themselves would refuse to accept it). But then what would one expect from a musical ostrich who famously claimed Mississippi to be dead last among states in musical influence? (Damn, but if that statement didn't prove you to be whiter than any 5 Republicans I know, combined).

There...really isn't any vocal similarity. Like I mean that completely sincerely. Death metal vocals are known for low growling "guttural" vocals, the vocals in question here are high pitched. Sure both are rather unintelligible, but that doesn't make them the same. I mean I can also say that death metal and black metal vocals aren't the same either, even though I hate both.

Now if the music I listened to IS exactly the same as metal except for the cultures around it, then why is there any separation in say Pandora judging only the sound? If I just heard some random band, how would I know if they were hardcore or metal based only on the sound if it's the same. The reason is because there is a difference, which I find quite clear and obvious even if you don't like either. I can tell the difference between death and black metal too, even though I hate both.

There's plenty of other clear differences that you kind of ignored, such as the lack of sick mosh parts in metal. Hell I remember once finding this Iron Maiden video somewhere and thought "Why is no one moshing?"

Furthermore if you talk to any "fence sitter" who isn't particularly into either culture and actually listens to both hardcore and metal (like Dallasfan on this forum), they'll tell you there are significant differences. I have found though that such people tend to ignore the most extreme examples on both ends, like brutal death metal or the sobbing on stage emo type of hardcore, but thus they can also tell you the two are HUGELY different. In fact if it was the exact same type of music then how did the different cultures even develop in the first place?

[Dr. MB]

i like (some) black metal but can't really get into death metal. Black is more focused on the melodic quality and the atmosphere and less so on the harsh vocals which I'm not even a huge fan of in a lot of cases. I listen way more for the music than the vocals anyway. I listen to it to relax or when it's dark or rainy outside, perfect atmosphere.

Burzum's Filosofem is a great album and it's pretty enjoyable for people who don't even like much metal (obviously if you can get past the whole Varg being a murderer and a nazi sympathizer and an all around maniac). If you're not a fan of the vocals there are always instrumental tracks. Darkthrone + Taake also have some good stuff.

A few albums I recommend:

Burzum - Burzum/Aske
Burzum - Hvis lyset tar oss
Burzum - Filosofem
Darkthrone - A Blaze in the Northern Sky
Darkthrone - Panzerfaust
Emperor - In The Nightside Eclipse
Horn - Naturkraft
Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
Taake - Hordalands doedskvad

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I was never a fan of either, but I had taken particular interest in the Norwegian black metal scene until I realized what they were really about (and Varg would at least partially agree at this point): nothing but a bunch of c#untish edgelords trying to do absolutely whatever it takes to one-up their fellow artists, even if that included murdering them.

Varg's defense for killing Euronymous essentially boiled down to him learning about a plan that involved Euronymous kidnapping Varg, tying him up, torturing him, and creating a snuff film for it. Euronymous was well-known for making these types of threats, so I can't say I'm particularly sympathetic that he ended up paying the price for it after all those years.

My sympathies at this point lie mainly with Dead, Mayhem's lead vocalist who clearly had very severe mental disorders, and ultimately killed himself only to have a degenerate like Euronymous find him, rearrange the objects where he'd blown his own brains out, photograph the body (which ended up being the cover for a bootleg album), and then literally giving away bits of his skull to those he deemed "worthy".

And that all goes without mentioning the burnings of centuries-old churches done in the name of their Nazi paganism, which their forebears never would have recognized because they didn't dress, act, or think like edgy little pussies.

While in prison and the years following his release, Varg created some nice ambient albums and that's what got me into his music. Then I lost any respect I might have conceivably had for him when he decided to abandon music for developing his overly-complicated tabletop roleplaying game and running around LARPing in the French countryside with homemade weapons, as a middle-aged man with a wife and growing number of kids that's probably in the double digits at this point.

Death metal I never cared for, but I thought that black metal at least had an intriguing history. Upon reflection, it was all sh!t from beginning to end.

[Dr. MB]

I was never a fan of either, but I had taken particular interest in the Norwegian black metal scene until I realized what they were really about (and Varg would at least partially agree at this point): nothing but a bunch of c#untish edgelords trying to do absolutely whatever it takes to one-up their fellow artists, even if that included murdering them.

https://local.theonion.com/black-metal-fan-conflicted-about-supporting-artist-who-1841280341

[Dr. MB]

My sympathies at this point lie mainly with Dead, Mayhem's lead vocalist who clearly had very severe mental disorders, and ultimately killed himself only to have a degenerate like Euronymous find him, rearrange the objects where he'd blown his own brains out, photograph the body (which ended up being the cover for a bootleg album), and then literally giving away bits of his skull to those he deemed "worthy".

To add on Euronymous fueled Dead’s suicidal ideations and encouraged it instead of getting him any help. Really wasn’t a nice guy according to just about anyone. Even Mayhem’s bassist Necrobutcher said he would’ve probably ended up killing Euronymous if Varg hadn’t gotten to him first.

Although who knows if he was telling the truth or not. Varg certainly still has a lot to say about it but most of the things he says nowadays seem to be lies or half truths to try and rid himself of anything that would contradict the “trve pagan” lifestyle he promotes now.

https://twitter.com/gandalfthewhi19/status/1317879034424954880?s=21
Like here he declines to mention the fact that he was the bassist on that album.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There are some pretty horrifying black metal musicians and it's kind of disgusting that they were still accepted by the scene.

For example there was a Swedish band called Dissection, where the founder and leader belonged to some weirdo Satanic cult that was actually pretty socially conservative and homophobic and because of this murdered a random gay guy in a park. This was even worse than Varg Vikernes since in his case he murdered a very disturbed and messed up individual who kind of provoked it and people close say had it coming, here it was just a random horrific hate crime. And yet he was released from jail in 2004 (these Nordic bands are lucky they're in those countries and get such lax sentences for horrific crimes, that's less than ten years after the murder in 1997) and then reformed the band and was heavily supported until he killed himself in 2006.

Also the original drummer of Emperor is also a convicted murderer who rejoined the band after his release. He also murdered a gay man who solicited him for sex in a well known cruising spot, and later said he did so because he was fascinated by serial killers and wanted to see what it was like to kill someone.

Very disturbing genre.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

How these genres feel about Brexit is the real question.

[7,052,770]

How these genres feel about Brexit is the real question.

Wrong, it depends on what baseball team they root for. Any band that likes the Marlins is an irredeemable HP.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

How these genres feel about Brexit is the real question.

Wrong, it depends on what baseball team they root for. Any band that likes the Marlins is an irredeemable HP.

I doubt they care about that in Norway and Norway isn't an EU member so probably not much about Brexit either.

[Dr. MB]

How these genres feel about Brexit is the real question.

Wrong, it depends on what baseball team they root for. Any band that likes the Marlins is an irredeemable HP.

I doubt they care about that in Norway and Norway isn't an EU member so probably not much about Brexit either.

Quick look at Varg Vikernes' Twitter and he called the EU a "terminal cancer to mankind" (along with the USA) and criticized Norway for having "more EU regulations than the EU itself." Which of course is no surprise. No speciifc Brexit commentary though.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

How these genres feel about Brexit is the real question.

Wrong, it depends on what baseball team they root for. Any band that likes the Marlins is an irredeemable HP.

I doubt they care about that in Norway and Norway isn't an EU member so probably not much about Brexit either.

Quick look at Varg Vikernes' Twitter and he called the EU a "terminal cancer to mankind" (along with the USA) and criticized Norway for having "more EU regulations than the EU itself." Which of course is no surprise. No speciifc Brexit commentary though.

All of Europe, including Norway, is authoritarian and communist in his eyes. But given that he spent 21 years of his life, for arson and murder, in what most Americans would mistake for a college dormitory, he should be counting his blessings.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

How these genres feel about Brexit is the real question.

Wrong, it depends on what baseball team they root for. Any band that likes the Marlins is an irredeemable HP.

I doubt they care about that in Norway and Norway isn't an EU member so probably not much about Brexit either.

Quick look at Varg Vikernes' Twitter and he called the EU a "terminal cancer to mankind" (along with the USA) and criticized Norway for having "more EU regulations than the EU itself." Which of course is no surprise. No speciifc Brexit commentary though.

I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been banned from Twitter, considering their crackdown on Nazis.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

How these genres feel about Brexit is the real question.

Wrong, it depends on what baseball team they root for. Any band that likes the Marlins is an irredeemable HP.

I doubt they care about that in Norway and Norway isn't an EU member so probably not much about Brexit either.

Quick look at Varg Vikernes' Twitter and he called the EU a "terminal cancer to mankind" (along with the USA) and criticized Norway for having "more EU regulations than the EU itself." Which of course is no surprise. No speciifc Brexit commentary though.

I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been banned from Twitter, considering their crackdown on Nazis.

His YouTube channel was banned, but last I checked it's since been resurrected, albeit with all the old videos gone. Big Tech doesn't seem to really care about sock accounts.

[Dr. MB]

How these genres feel about Brexit is the real question.

Wrong, it depends on what baseball team they root for. Any band that likes the Marlins is an irredeemable HP.

I doubt they care about that in Norway and Norway isn't an EU member so probably not much about Brexit either.

Quick look at Varg Vikernes' Twitter and he called the EU a "terminal cancer to mankind" (along with the USA) and criticized Norway for having "more EU regulations than the EU itself." Which of course is no surprise. No speciifc Brexit commentary though.

I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been banned from Twitter, considering their crackdown on Nazis.

He had an old account that either got suspended or he deleted himself. This current one's only two years old. But I noticed he recently changed it to "Thulean Perspective" and removed his name from the handle so maybe he's a little paranoid Twitter is gonna crack down on him.

[HisGrace]

Bad but still better than emo.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I was never a fan of either, but I had taken particular interest in the Norwegian black metal scene until I realized what they were really about (and Varg would at least partially agree at this point): nothing but a bunch of c#untish edgelords trying to do absolutely whatever it takes to one-up their fellow artists, even if that included murdering them.

Varg's defense for killing Euronymous essentially boiled down to him learning about a plan that involved Euronymous kidnapping Varg, tying him up, torturing him, and creating a snuff film for it. Euronymous was well-known for making these types of threats, so I can't say I'm particularly sympathetic that he ended up paying the price for it after all those years.

My sympathies at this point lie mainly with Dead, Mayhem's lead vocalist who clearly had very severe mental disorders, and ultimately killed himself only to have a degenerate like Euronymous find him, rearrange the objects where he'd blown his own brains out, photograph the body (which ended up being the cover for a bootleg album), and then literally giving away bits of his skull to those he deemed "worthy".

And that all goes without mentioning the burnings of centuries-old churches done in the name of their Nazi paganism, which their forebears never would have recognized because they didn't dress, act, or think like edgy little pussies.

While in prison and the years following his release, Varg created some nice ambient albums and that's what got me into his music. Then I lost any respect I might have conceivably had for him when he decided to abandon music for developing his overly-complicated tabletop roleplaying game and running around LARPing in the French countryside with homemade weapons, as a middle-aged man with a wife and growing number of kids that's probably in the double digits at this point.

Death metal I never cared for, but I thought that black metal at least had an intriguing history. Upon reflection, it was all sh!t from beginning to end.

Have you ever heard this song?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Have you ever heard this song?

No, but thanks for the rec! Those lyrics are hilarious.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Have you ever heard this song?

No, but thanks for the rec! Those lyrics are hilarious.

All of his songs are. The funny thing is this started as a joke side project of a guy who was in some Philadelphia punk bands and yet he ended up playing with bands like Spazz and His Hero is Gone.