Paul's New Tax Plan

[bedstuy]

Pretty populist imo

A giant taxcut for rich people that will necessitate huge budget cuts is not populist.

[bedstuy]

Pretty populist imo

A giant taxcut for rich people that will necessitate huge budget cuts is not populist.

It gives tax cuts for everyone. The only reason it is a giant tax cut for the rich is because you progressives tax them more than anyone.


Anyways, it's ideally supposed to reduce 2 trillion in spending over a 10 year period. His initial plan was to cut the budget by 700 billion each year, which I supported

Poor people don't pay federal income taxes.  But, they do rely on government programs as their lifeline, unlike rich people.  So, this plan would be a disaster for the poor. 

And, remember, when the Federal government slashes its budget, that affects the states.  States have less money rolling in from the Federal government, so they raise taxes.  So, this plan would raise taxes on the poor and cut their services to the bone.

Plus, imagine a sudden $700 billion cut in the Federal budget.  That would be a massive economic disruption.  What if that led to a recession or financial panic? 

You know who would be the worst President ever to deal with that sort of issue?  Rand Paul!  Rand Paul subscribes to fringe crazy monetary policy. 

[bedstuy]

Okay. I must ask. What is this forum's hatred of rich people? What is wrong with people making their own money by honest toil and keeping it?

Nobody likes taxes per se.  We all hate paying taxes, but it's necessary.  The government needs a ton of money to operate, provides services and public benefits.  Thus, there's the question, who pays?

Democrats think rich people should pay more for several reasons.

1.  They have more money.  It's impossible to get $1 million in tax revenue from someone who brings in $25k a year.  So, it's necessary to bring in the necessary revenue.

2.  Money means relatively less to rich people.  The difference in happiness and resources between $1 million in assets and $800k in assets is smaller than $2k and $1k.  We should be more worried about the needy than people who have all of their basic needs taken care of several times over.

3.  Rich people hoard money, while poor people spend money and spur consumption because they need to spend almost all of their income to live.

4.  Basic utilitarian principles: The greatest good for the greatest number.  There are more poor and middle class people than rich people.

5.  Society works better with a more equal distribution of wealth.  Just think of it this way, there are talented, potentially productive children of all income levels.  But, wealth is going to distort that.  Talented, hardworking poor kids are going to be handicapped forever by growing up poor, while lazy, untalented rich kids will advance in society.  We'll miss out on the productivity of the poor kids while we suffer through the incompetence of the unfairly rewarded rich kids.

6.  Nobody earns a ton of money on their own, the famous Elizabeth Warren point.  The economy is interdependent.  The CEO relies on the poor workers here and abroad, the infrastructure built by the government, the public services, the schools to train their workers, the court system to enforce their contracts, etc.  We're all in this together.  The Ayn Randian idea that rich people are just better is just a myth created by sociopaths and propagated by the rich and powerful to fool gullible men who flatter themselves to think they'll end up CEO of Exxon someday.

[bedstuy]

This person estimates that Rand Paul's plan would reduce tax revenue by about one third or $1.2 trillion dollars in FY 2016.  How could you ever responsibly reduce spending that much?

I mean, let's say you're generous, and we'll allow a $200 billion increase in the deficit.  That's another $1 trillion to cut from the budget.  

How does one cut the Federal budget $1 trillion?

Hmmm.  It's impossible without massive social security and Medicare benefit cuts.  That's my intuition at least.  Try running on a massive social security and Medicare benefit cut.  Please Republicans, please try that.  

[bedstuy]

Thanks for not simply snarking this off.

The income tax only brings in $152 billion a year, which could easily be cut if we eliminated unconstitutional programs. A higher rate is a drop in the bucket. I feel an income tax as a whole in unneeded. This is because judging people on net income is too black and white. It is the same mistake Sanders makes. Not all rich people hoard or manipulate money, so taxing them like that is foolish. You can weed out the hoarders by focusing on the capital gains tax, which wouldn't punish the honest rich people. I like what Jesse Ventura said. Why should someone living in a studio apartment with a beat up Volkswagen that makes a million a year pay the same as some guy with 50 sports cars? With a national sales tax, the latter would ACTUALLY be taxed like a rich person. The idea of income redistribution is also foolish. It defies what America was founded on. It causes the rich to get poorer so that the poor can be a little better off, and that is simply divisive. A higher capital gains tax ensures that the rich people who made it honestly are REWARDED, not punished for their success.

A few points:

As pointed out before, that stat is wildly incorrect.  $1.4 trillion is from income taxes, not counting things like FICA,

Why are you insisting that taxes are a moral judgment on the person who pays them?

Rich people, by definition, hoard money more than poor people. 

Why isn't it divisive when the rich get rich off the backs of the poor?

[bedstuy]

Honestly I don't see how anyone can say that this hurts the poor. The first $50,000 is exempt. And taxes ARE a judgment. It punishes success more or less.

Imagine a senior citizen who currently gets social security check that amounts to $16k a year.  They don't pay income taxes. 

Under this system, let's say their benefit is cut to $5k to pay for the tax cut.  I would call that hurting.

Imagine a poor family who pays payroll taxes but no yearly income tax.  Under this system, they get their food stamps cut, their Medicaid cut and a variety of other services paired back.  And, their state government raises taxes to make up for the giant loss in Federal government services.  Their tax rate might not change at the Federal level, but they're poorer.

And, no, taxes are not a punishment.  A fine is a punishment.  Everyone needs to pay taxes.

[bedstuy]

This plan repeals the estate tax completely, no?