Once more, gun control opponents...

[Torie]

Anyone come up with a sensible plan in this thread to make it more difficult for psychotics to get their grubby little hands on guns?

Reasonable regulations on gun ownership and possession for reasons of public safety are indeed totally Constitutional by the way.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

It's silliness like this that makes me glad we never wrote down our constitution

[Ebowed]

Until you somehow eliminate violence generally, gun control is pointless.

OK, America, you heard the man - no restrictions on your guns until violence drops to ZERO.

Sounds smart

[Iosif]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I agree completely with Karl Rove.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/21/karl-rove-only-way-to-stop-the-violence-is-to-repeal-2nd-amendment/#ixzz3dk7Font3

[pbrower2a]

I don't get blaming the mentally ill for violence. There are plenty of people with mental illnesses who aren't violent. And there are plenty of perfectly "normal" (as in, wouldn't be diagnosed as mentally ill) people who commit violent crimes. A lot of evil is done by perfectly ordinary people.

As for the Charleston shooter...racism and sexism aren't mental illnesses. They are an endemic part of American society, whether you recognize it or not.

Most of the mentally-ill are more nuisances than menaces. But no more than we allow drunks to operate motor vehicles, we don't need to allow the mentally-ill to bear firearms.

[Beet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL8JEEt2RxI&app=desktop

[Free Bird]

Number of tough guys on the internet who believe that more people should have guns in order to prevent gun violence: A gazillion


Number of said tough guys who actually have the balls (or is retarded enough) to carry a gun out in the open and be one of those people:

...............

And how may you know this? It is proven that areas with more civilian guns have lower crime rates.

Are you one of those people who openly carries a gun into a public place?  

Don't have a Maine permit yet

Ahhhhh.  But when you do, you'll carry that gun wherever you go?

Still waiting for a response. 

Indeed I will

[Simfan34]

Okay. Let's settle this. Every anti gun person here besides ag who is paranoid. What do you propose we do in terms of gun laws? At this point we are arguing in circles.

Off the top of my head.

Close the loopholes to make sure all non-antique guns are purchased with a background check.

Gun-buyback programs in inner-cities

Create new penalties and regulations on straw purchases.

Civil Liability for straw purchasers and/or improperly selling a gun used in a crime.

An excise tax on firearms to pay for gun-buybacks, community policing and other crime prevention programs.

Repeal DC v. Heller

All excellent proposals, though I don't know how you can repeal a court ruling.

[bedstuy]

I think you got the point Simfan.  Reverse it then.

[Simfan34]

I think you got the point Simfan.  Reverse it then.

Hopefully they will. But the rest are immediately doable and should be done.

[Torie]

Okay. Let's settle this. Every anti gun person here besides ag who is paranoid. What do you propose we do in terms of gun laws? At this point we are arguing in circles.

Off the top of my head.

Close the loopholes to make sure all non-antique guns are purchased with a background check.

Gun-buyback programs in inner-cities

Create new penalties and regulations on straw purchases.

Civil Liability for straw purchasers and/or improperly selling a gun used in a crime.

An excise tax on firearms to pay for gun-buybacks, community policing and other crime prevention programs.

Repeal DC v. Heller

All excellent proposals, though I don't know how you can repeal a court ruling.

I don't think the ruling that gun ownership is an individual right proscribes any of the above regulations and procedures.

[CountryClassSF]

Anyone come up with a sensible plan in this thread to make it more difficult for psychotics to get their grubby little hands on guns?

Reasonable regulations on gun ownership and possession for reasons of public safety are indeed totally Constitutional by the way.

Why does the left never want to talk about mental illness and the common denominator of most mass shooters being medicated?

[Simfan34]

Okay. Let's settle this. Every anti gun person here besides ag who is paranoid. What do you propose we do in terms of gun laws? At this point we are arguing in circles.

Off the top of my head.

Close the loopholes to make sure all non-antique guns are purchased with a background check.

Gun-buyback programs in inner-cities

Create new penalties and regulations on straw purchases.

Civil Liability for straw purchasers and/or improperly selling a gun used in a crime.

An excise tax on firearms to pay for gun-buybacks, community policing and other crime prevention programs.

Repeal DC v. Heller

All excellent proposals, though I don't know how you can repeal a court ruling.

I don't think the ruling that gun ownership is an individual right proscribes any of the above regulations and procedures.

Neither do I. I wasn't assuming these were reliant on that.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Why should gun buyback programs be limited to inner cities?  For that matter, is there any evidence that they do anything other than give burglars a way to safely fence stolen guns?

[Simfan34]

Why should gun buyback programs be limited to inner cities?  For that matter, is there any evidence that they do anything other than give burglars a way to safely fence stolen guns?

I'd support them universally. What does the bolded mean?

[CountryClassSF]

Why should gun buyback programs be limited to inner cities?  For that matter, is there any evidence that they do anything other than give burglars a way to safely fence stolen guns?

That's a serious concern - and I'm unsure why or how disarming law abiding gun owners is going to help protect people from psychotics.

Do some really think sociopaths are going to say "okay, I'm no longer going to have violent thoughts now because the city offered me $100 for the firearm."

[Torie]

Anyone come up with a sensible plan in this thread to make it more difficult for psychotics to get their grubby little hands on guns?

Reasonable regulations on gun ownership and possession for reasons of public safety are indeed totally Constitutional by the way.

Why does the left never want to talk about mental illness and the common denominator of most mass shooters being medicated?

You have made two assertions there, both almost certainly erroneous. If one is going to make edgy assertions, that seem facially false, it's only reasonable to expect documentation backing up such assertions. Don't you agree?

[WVdemocrat]

Anyone come up with a sensible plan in this thread to make it more difficult for psychotics to get their grubby little hands on guns?

Reasonable regulations on gun ownership and possession for reasons of public safety are indeed totally Constitutional by the way.

Why does the left never want to talk about mental illness and the common denominator of most mass shooters being medicated?

This is about preventing those people from getting their hands on guns. People with mental illnesses, as many mass shooters have, are not inherently violent, but we need to make sure they don't get their hands on guns anyway.

And if mentally ill people who intend to commit mass murder get their hands on guns, what the hell can government do aside from make it harder for them to get their hands on guns? Eliminate mental illness altogether?

[Deus Naturae]

Probably a combination of cultural and legal factors. Basically, the U.S. culture is more violent in general and the U.S. government criminalizes a broader range of activity, which increases violence (gun-related and otherwise) for obvious reasons. The solution is just to give people more freedom. Fewer laws, less crime, less violence.

Here's a question for Atlas hoplophobes, if guns are the cause of relatively high U.S. violent crime rates, why is there no correlation whatsoever between the two:



Furthermore, when other Western industrialized nations tightened their gun control policies, crime in those nations went up, which suggests that the reason those nations have lower gun crime rates than the United States has nothing to do with gun control, and than gun control itself is completely ineffective at reducing crime.

But, none of these facts really matter to the people who truly drive the power-agendas of the world. They want everyone to rely on the State for protection so that they can be easily controlled and won't object to crap like police militarization and various police-state measures. It starts in kindergarten when they indoctrinate kids into the pussy mentality of "don't fight back, tell a teacher." They want you to be absolutely reliant on authority and unable to defend yourself or anyone else.

[WVdemocrat]

@DeusNaturae

You can throw up graphs like that all you want, but you're not using critical thought. How would criminal background checks on gun purchases lead to an increase in violent crime? How would mental health exams or mandatory smart guns lead to an increase in violent crime? How about caps on magazines? Tell me, I'd really like to know.

[bedstuy]

Probably a combination of cultural and legal factors. Basically, the U.S. culture is more violent in general and the U.S. government criminalizes a broader range of activity, which increases violence (gun-related and otherwise) for obvious reasons. The solution is just to give people more freedom. Fewer laws, less crime, less violence.

What does the US criminalize that Canada, France, Germany and the UK do not criminalize?  I would agree that we could reduce violence by ending the drug war, but it's not like drugs are legal everywhere with less gun violence.

Here's a question for Atlas hoplophobes, if guns are the cause of relatively high U.S. violent crime rates, why is there no correlation whatsoever between the two:

That graph is so stupid, it takes my breathe away. 

The potential danger uptick with guns is when one household or person goes from 0 guns to 1 gun.  Going from 1 gun to 50 guns isn't going to matter nearly as much.  Much of that increase is attributable to a few people buying many guns.  To wit:



The gun ownership rate has gone down significantly during that period!  That is clearly the more important statistic, not the sheer number of guns in existence.   

Furthermore, when other Western industrialized nations tightened their gun control policies, crime in those nations went up, which suggests that the reason those nations have lower gun crime rates than the United States has nothing to do with gun control, and than gun control itself is completely ineffective at reducing crime.

That BBC article from 15 years ago is not good data.  It related to the UK, which is not comparable to the US in terms of gun violence.  They basically had their gun crime rate tick up once 15 years ago, from an already low rate.  Not proof of anything.

There are plenty of studies that show gun control decreasing crime and gun injuries/deaths.  The Brady Bill for instance took effect in 1994 and the crime rate in the US plummeted.  That's not to say that correlation equals causation, it's a complicated research question to prove either way.

But, none of these facts really matter to the people who truly drive the power-agendas of the world. They want everyone to rely on the State for protection so that they can be easily controlled and won't object to crap like police militarization and various police-state measures. It starts in kindergarten when they indoctrinate kids into the pussy mentality of "don't fight back, tell a teacher." They want you to be absolutely reliant on authority and unable to defend yourself or anyone else.

No, some people actually want fewer people to get shot. 

[WVdemocrat]

But, none of these facts really matter to the people who truly drive the power-agendas of the world. They want everyone to rely on the State for protection so that they can be easily controlled and won't object to crap like police militarization and various police-state measures. It starts in kindergarten when they indoctrinate kids into the pussy mentality of "don't fight back, tell a teacher." They want you to be absolutely reliant on authority and unable to defend yourself or anyone else.

You're bats*** crazy. I really shouldn't respond to this conspiratorial nonsense, BUT I have no self control, so here goes nothing....

The people who support gun control aren't members of the Secret EEEEEVIL Liberal Illuminati, they're people who are legitimately concerned about these recurring mass shootings and the concerning influence of the NRA and the gun nut lobby. The people who support gun control are the same people who oppose police militarization. They are the same people who were outraged at the police response to the protests in Ferguson.

BTW I hate when radical libertarians like you resort to the nonsense argument of "WAKE UP SHEEPLE!" whenever you know you're beat. I don't know why you guys can't just discuss and debate the issue without resorting to paranoid rants about government trying to control the people by rounding up guns.

[Deus Naturae]

^I'll reply later, but for now I'll say that I think you've misinterpreted my post. I didn't mean to say that everyone who supports gun control supports the things I associated with it, simply that gun control fits into a broader agenda of making people helpless pussies who rely on the State for protection and call the cops at a moment's notice.

[WVdemocrat]

^I'll reply later, but for now I'll say that I think you've misinterpreted my post. I didn't mean to say that everyone who supports gun control supports the things I associated with it, simply that gun control fits into a broader agenda of making people helpless pussies who rely on the State for protection and call the cops at a moment's notice.

Well, I disagree with that 10,000%, but I'm glad you're not generalizing all gun control supporters as wanting that to happen.

[YaBoyNY]

Why do our deaths from gun violence outpace those of any other developed, stable country? If guns aren't the problem, what is the problem and how do you intend to fix that problem?

Violent crime has steadily declined over the years. It is at an ALL TIME LOW. We too are developed and stable. The problem is really concentrated in urban areas, which we can solve by giving them more opportunities with job training programs and better schools. Criminal background check improvement, sure, but really we should focus on improving urban areas/states, which by the way, HAVE STRICTER GUN LAWS THAN PEACEFUL STATES WITH LESS CRIME!

A single map to prove your point moot.