Bill Introduced in Michigan to lower Minimum Wage for those under 20

[SWE]

http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2015/06/young_adults_in_michigan_would.html

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[pbrower2a]

Michigan Snake Legislature -- trying to transform Michigan into Oklahoma on behalf of the GOP.

[DemPGH]

Always somehow amazes me that people want other people to have less.

A good dystopian right wing catchphrase would be, "We want you to have less. . . so you'll work harder."

[Ebsy]

Another day, another bad idea out of a GOP controlled legislature.

[ElectionsGuy]

Age exceptions like this make me sick. If one is going to make a law that affects wages, do it for all or for none. If an 18 year old and a 21 year old are doing the exact same work, there's no reason the 18 year old's work should be worth less.

[publicunofficial]

Age exceptions like this make me sick. If one is going to make a law that affects wages, do it for all or for none. If an 18 year old and a 21 year old are doing the exact same work, there's no reason the 18 year old's work should be worth less.

Agreed.

[Comrade Funk]

Gerrymander and hate: the modern GOP

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Age exceptions like this make me sick. If one is going to make a law that affects wages, do it for all or for none. If an 18 year old and a 21 year old are doing the exact same work, there's no reason the 18 year old's work should be worth less.

[cinyc]

Youth unemployment is very high, much higher than unemployment at-large.  If we're going to have a minimum wage, a lower wage for youths would encourage more hiring of youths, lowering youth unemployment, and giving youths, who are less likely to have a family to support on a minimum wage, anyway, entry level job experience that will lead to better-paying jobs down the road. 

This bill makes economic sense.

[Ebsy]

Youth unemployment is very high, much higher than unemployment at-large.  If we're going to have a minimum wage, a lower wage for youths would encourage more hiring of youths, lowering youth unemployment, and giving youths, who are less likely to have a family to support on a minimum wage, anyway, entry level job experience that will lead to better-paying jobs down the road. 

This bill makes economic sense.

Citation needed.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Age exceptions like this make me sick. If one is going to make a law that affects wages, do it for all or for none. If an 18 year old and a 21 year old are doing the exact same work, there's no reason the 18 year old's work should be worth less.

Agreed.

[cinyc]

Youth unemployment is very high, much higher than unemployment at-large.  If we're going to have a minimum wage, a lower wage for youths would encourage more hiring of youths, lowering youth unemployment, and giving youths, who are less likely to have a family to support on a minimum wage, anyway, entry level job experience that will lead to better-paying jobs down the road.  

This bill makes economic sense.

Citation needed.

Enjoy!  Notice what happened in New Zealand after they repealed a two-tier minimum wage for youth?

[cinyc]

I know a lot of European countries (the UK comes to mind) have staggered minimum wages like this, so does anyone know more about how that's viewed there?


This is just another token "pro-business" move that doesn't actually accomplish anything, other than screwing a bunch of 16 - 19 year olds out of some good money that could be used for things like college, textbooks, food, porn, alcohol, drugs, and other important things.

Horrible legislature.

It actually helps more 16-19 year olds get jobs as youth unemployment goes down.  So there are more people who are in some "good money" for things like college, textbooks, food and illegal vices.

[ag]

It, actually, makes a lot of sense - for the young. If anybody should be upset here, it is the marginal workers who are older than 20. This gives a chance for the young people to get some work experience, which would improve their future job prospects. If anybody is worse off here, it is not the young people.

[WVdemocrat]

Age exceptions like this make me sick. If one is going to make a law that affects wages, do it for all or for none. If an 18 year old and a 21 year old are doing the exact same work, there's no reason the 18 year old's work should be worth less.

Agreed.

[Ebsy]

Youth unemployment is very high, much higher than unemployment at-large.  If we're going to have a minimum wage, a lower wage for youths would encourage more hiring of youths, lowering youth unemployment, and giving youths, who are less likely to have a family to support on a minimum wage, anyway, entry level job experience that will lead to better-paying jobs down the road.  

This bill makes economic sense.

Citation needed.

Enjoy!  Notice what happened in New Zealand after they repealed a two-tier minimum wage for youth?

This article fails to establish causation, merely correlation. If you look at youth unemployment in many other countries at the same time, it also increased, regardless of whether they had a two tiered system for workers.

Honestly, these articles are just intellectually dishonest in the extreme.

Here is America's youth unemployment rate: tracked against it's regular unemployment rate.



And here is the graph the article you posted cites, over the same period as above:



Do you possibly notice anything?

[Ebsy]

If you need a hint, they're nearly the same graph.

[politicallefty]

I know a lot of European countries (the UK comes to mind) have staggered minimum wages like this, so does anyone know more about how that's viewed there?


This is just another token "pro-business" move that doesn't actually accomplish anything, other than screwing a bunch of 16 - 19 year olds out of some good money that could be used for things like college, textbooks, food, porn, alcohol, drugs, and other important things.

Horrible legislature.

At least those other countries have more generous governments with respect to their people. Even if I'm vehemently opposed to an age-based minimum wage as I am, why is the cutoff age arbitrarily set at 20? I could understand 18 (once again, despite my vehement opposition). College is already unaffordable for many and becoming only worse over time. Laws like these serve only to screw over those who may be trying to work their way through college, not to mention those young adults that may be on their own and trying to make ends meet. I'm not surprised to see Republicans push a measure that chips away at the minimum wage, considering many would rather it be abolished altogether.

[Famous Mortimer]

I know a lot of European countries (the UK comes to mind) have staggered minimum wages like this, so does anyone know more about how that's viewed there?


This is just another token "pro-business" move that doesn't actually accomplish anything, other than screwing a bunch of 16 - 19 year olds out of some good money that could be used for things like college, textbooks, food, porn, alcohol, drugs, and other important things.

Horrible legislature.

It actually helps more 16-19 year olds get jobs as youth unemployment goes down.  So there are more people who are in some "good money" for things like college, textbooks, food and illegal vices.

Youth unemployment should be way high. Kids should be in school. Not at work. No one should have to work at 18 to survive. If they do work though, they should get paid the same as everyone else.

[cinyc]

If you need a hint, they're nearly the same graph.

Except they're not.  Youth unemployment in New Zealand skyrocketed when the pay differential was repealed.  Adult unemployment did not.  Youth unemployment INCREASED relative to adult unemployment.  In the U.S., both had about the same relative increase.  What could possibly cause that, if not the repeal of the pay differential?

Youth unemployment should be way high. Kids should be in school. Not at work. No one should have to work at 18 to survive. If they do work though, they should get paid the same as everyone else.

The number of people unemployed is calculated based on the number of people looking for work, not the population at large.  If teens actually looking for work can't find a job, unemployment goes up.  Teens in school or out of school looking for work are included in the denominator.  Teens in school or out of school not looking for work are not.  If there are fewer jobs available for teens looking for work than those seeking them, the solution to the problem is to lower the minimum wage so that it is cheaper to hire teens and more teens get hired.  Simple supply and demand.

People who "should be in school" still sometimes work, whether it is because they actually aren't in school or want extra cash to pay for school or leisure activities.

[Ebsy]

Except they're not.  Youth unemployment in New Zealand skyrocketed when the pay differential was repealed.  Adult unemployment did not.  Youth unemployment INCREASED relative to adult unemployment.  In the U.S., both had about the same relative increase.  What could possibly cause that, if not the repeal of the pay differential?

I decided to take a look at a longer view of things than the article you linked did, and I found something astonishing:







Now, I wonder what possibly could have happened in 2008 - 2009 to cause BOTH youth unemployment and unemployment to increase? It couldn't have been that nasty Global Financial Crisis, could it?

BTW, I got my data from OECD, which doesn't track monthly. So, it may be that youth unemployment in New Zealand began ticking up slightly a few months before regular unemployment in New Zealand, but regular unemployment rose within the same year. And, all three countries have a pretty steady ratio between their unemployment rates and youth unemployment rates if you look at the yearly averages.

[cinyc]

Except they're not.  Youth unemployment in New Zealand skyrocketed when the pay differential was repealed.  Adult unemployment did not.  Youth unemployment INCREASED relative to adult unemployment.  In the U.S., both had about the same relative increase.  What could possibly cause that, if not the repeal of the pay differential?

I decided to take a look at a longer view of things than the article you linked did, and I found something astonishing:







Now, I wonder what possibly could have happened in 2008 - 2009 to cause BOTH youth unemployment and unemployment to increase? It couldn't have been that nasty Global Financial Crisis, could it?

BTW, I got my data from OECD, which doesn't track monthly. So, it may be that youth unemployment in New Zealand began ticking up slightly a few months before regular unemployment in New Zealand, but regular unemployment rose within the same year. And, all three countries have a pretty steady ratio between their unemployment rates and youth unemployment rates if you look at the yearly averages.

As I understand it, New Zealand's lower minimum wage was for 16-17 year olds, not all youths.  I don't know what the OECD considers youth unemployment, but many consider it 16-24.  There are more 18-24s in the workplace than 16-17s, so the large blip in 16-17s unemployment after the minimum wage differential was eradicated might not show up as much in the larger cohort.

I think the UK also got rid of a differential around the same time.  And note how the gap between youth unemployment and overall unemployment got larger after 2008.

[Indy Texas]

Age exceptions like this make me sick. If one is going to make a law that affects wages, do it for all or for none. If an 18 year old and a 21 year old are doing the exact same work, there's no reason the 18 year old's work should be worth less.

Basically this. If the Michigan legislature considers youth unemployment to be a problem, they might have some kind of public jobs program where high schoolers could get paid to do things like clean up some of the horrific blight in Detroit.

I'd also point out one thing people often overlook about high youth unemployment - many of the people who are actively seeking work have been offered jobs but can't accept them because they're too far away and they don't have consistent transportation to get there. If you're a 17 year old who doesn't have a car and the suburban mall/shopping center where all the jobs are is 20 minutes away by car, you're basically unemployable without your own car.

I was listening to a piece on the radio a few weeks ago about how middle- and upper-class children were more likely to have summer jobs because (1) their parents bought them cars or otherwise had the time to drive them to work, and (2) they were more likely to have parents or family friends in managerial roles where they could get their resume to the top of the pile.