NYT: Bernie Sanders has a "non-white problem"
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  NYT: Bernie Sanders has a "non-white problem"
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Author Topic: NYT: Bernie Sanders has a "non-white problem"  (Read 5730 times)
Tender Branson
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« on: June 24, 2015, 01:40:29 PM »

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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/politics/bernie-sanders-lags-hillary-clinton-in-introducing-himself-to-black-voters.html
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2015, 01:42:26 PM »

Maybe his campaign should air a couple good ads in SC in Q4, with pictures of his civil rights activist sit-ins in the 1960s ? Maybe it attracts more blacks to his campaign.
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HAnnA MArin County
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2015, 01:47:21 PM »

Well, remember that Bill Clinton was the first black president, and African Americans loved the Clintons until Hillary dared to challenge Obama, then she was a racist, but now that she's been a good "team player," the black community seems to have "forgiven" her and is solidly behind her now. It'll be hard for Bernie to break that coalition, especially since he comes from Vermont, which has the second lowest percentage of African Americans in the nation, I think, only behind Maine.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2015, 01:55:45 PM »

Maybe his campaign should air a couple good ads in SC in Q4, with pictures of his civil rights activist sit-ins in the 1960s ? Maybe it attracts more blacks to his campaign.

That wouldn't work. Nothing would work, tbh. Clinton will crush the other Dems among Blacks.

I don't think it's impossible for Sanders to get a decent share of Blacks, Hispanics, Asians and Native-Americans.

But there need to be a few factors for this to happen: Sanders needs to continue to gain in the "white" states of IA and NH in the coming months, do well in the debates and then defeat Hillary in those 2 states.

At the same time, the Sanders people need to run a flawless campaign, targeted at minority voters in SC, FL and NV - with ads of him and his working class policies such as a good minimum wage and against big corporations and billionaires (while showing Hillary as a corporate enabler and an out-of-touch big-business type who's wealthy herself and therefore not like the average minority voter).

Maybe then he has a chance in the later primary states due to momentum ...
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Simfan34
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2015, 02:37:43 PM »
« Edited: June 24, 2015, 02:40:47 PM by Governor Simfan34 »

What an unbelievably patronising thread. Hardly any better than the "still on the plantation" rhetoric you hear from the right. The idea that black people will vote for someone just because you show people a couple of pictures of them and Jesse Jackson together is patently absurd and takes the audience for easily swayed simpletons.
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Torie
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2015, 02:40:41 PM »

I don't think most "non-whites" have a clue who Sanders is at the moment. How many "non whites" are showing up at Hillary events?
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SawxDem
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2015, 02:52:03 PM »

I mean Vermont and NH are pretty damn white
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Ebsy
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2015, 04:33:21 PM »

I don't think most "non-whites" have a clue who Sanders is at the moment. How many "non whites" are showing up at Hillary events?
If you watched her campaign launch in New York, it is was remarkably ethnically diverse. Of course, the Democratic party itself is much whiter in most states than the Democratic Party of say, NYC.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2015, 05:45:44 PM »
« Edited: June 24, 2015, 05:47:36 PM by Lincoln Republican »

If Sanders won the Democratic nomination, he would win black votes overwhelmingly in the general election.  He just has to get passed the primaries.

Blacks are the Dems most loyal voting block.  The Dems know they can take black voters for granted anyway.

I have been saying for some time now that Sanders should pick black Congresswoman Donna Edwards for VP.  
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Ebsy
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2015, 05:49:05 PM »

If Sanders won the Democratic nomination, he would win black votes overwhelmingly in the general election.  Blacks are the Dems most loyal voting block.  The Dems know they can take black voters for granted anyway.

I have been saying for some time now that Sanders should pick black Congresswoman Donna Edwards for VP. 
Everyone knows he would win blacks if he was the nominee. And Edwards is already running for the open Maryland Senate seat, so she'll be in the middle of that race when it comes time to pick a VP.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2015, 05:56:40 PM »

What an unbelievably patronising thread. Hardly any better than the "still on the plantation" rhetoric you hear from the right. The idea that black people will vote for someone just because you show people a couple of pictures of them and Jesse Jackson together is patently absurd and takes the audience for easily swayed simpletons.

Basically this. You'd all be furious if blue avatars suggested they could win over Hispanic voters by airing ads with mariachi music and a visit from the pope.
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The Free North
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2015, 05:56:52 PM »

Bernie's politics appeal to upper middle class whites and no one else at this point.

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Yelnoc
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2015, 06:05:16 PM »

Bernie's politics appeal to upper middle class whites and no one else at this point.



Why?
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2015, 06:06:44 PM »

Sanders' real problem is that his brand of Socialism is out of fashion. It's a fringe movement to begin with, and at this point its supporters are in a far more radical mood than Sanders is comfortable with.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2015, 07:27:11 PM »

If Sanders won the Democratic nomination, he would win black votes overwhelmingly in the general election.  Blacks are the Dems most loyal voting block.  The Dems know they can take black voters for granted anyway.

I have been saying for some time now that Sanders should pick black Congresswoman Donna Edwards for VP. 
Everyone knows he would win blacks if he was the nominee. And Edwards is already running for the open Maryland Senate seat, so she'll be in the middle of that race when it comes time to pick a VP.

But in many states you can run for both.
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2015, 07:28:57 PM »

Sanders marched on Washington for King's I have a dream speech while (or maybe a bit before) Clinton was a Goldwater girl.
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« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2015, 07:53:49 PM »

What an unbelievably patronising thread. Hardly any better than the "still on the plantation" rhetoric you hear from the right. The idea that black people will vote for someone just because you show people a couple of pictures of them and Jesse Jackson together is patently absurd and takes the audience for easily swayed simpletons.

Basically this. You'd all be furious if blue avatars suggested they could win over Hispanic voters by airing ads with mariachi music and a visit from the pope.

Has anyone in this thread suggested anything like this?  It's not as though Sanders is a known quantity who has been actively rejected by blacks on policy grounds. 
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2015, 08:33:37 PM »

At the same time, the Sanders people need to run a flawless campaign, targeted at minority voters in SC, FL and NV ...

Florida's primary is March 15th, two weeks after Super Tuesday.  Not sure why it would be more important than the Super Tuesday states.
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eric82oslo
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2015, 09:47:31 PM »
« Edited: June 24, 2015, 10:03:47 PM by eric82oslo »

Maybe Sander's biggest problem is that he strongly selfidentify as a socialist?

According to Gallup's most recent numbers released today, only 47% of US adults say that they would even be willing to consider voting for a socialist. This is below every single denomation tested, including atheist (58%), Muslim (60%), evangelical Christian (surprisingly only 73%!), gay or lesbian (74%), Mormon (81%), Jewish (91%), Hispanic (91%), black (92%), woman (92%) and Catholic (93%). In other words, a socialist presidential candidate is the only one which not even a majority of American voters would be open to consider. What's perhaps just as bad for Sanders: Only 28% of selfproclaimed protestants would be willing to vote for a socialist.

Actually, less people would be willing to vote for a socialist today than the percentage who were willing to vote for a black or female candidate in 1960, the year when the first Catholic president was elected.

Strange they didn't ask for attitude towards Asian, Native American or biracial/multiracial candidates.

More here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/183791/support-nontraditional-candidates-varies-religion.aspx?utm_source=Politics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles

By the way, I wonder what percentage would be willing to support a black, female, Hispanic, socialistic atheist candidate for president?
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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2015, 03:40:43 AM »

Bernie's politics appeal to upper middle class whites and no one else at this point.



No. That's not the issue. The policies aren't the issue.

Sanders's policies are in most respects well in line and well in tune with what a lot of visible minority groups in the United States want out of government. If you had an upper-middle-class white and a working-class member of pretty much any non-white ethnic group and asked them to run through a list of Sanders's policy positions, it's very probable that the latter would agree with him on much more. But the thing is that Sanders has done nothing to demonstrate to non-white voters that he would be better at advocating for their interests than Clinton or somebody else with more of a track record of actually having minorities as constituents.

You're right insofar as Sanders's 'brand' of politics comes across as champagne-socialist to most people outside Vermont. This is because the way Sanders presents his ideas--again, not really the ideas themselves, but things like presenting the ideas as a form of socialism--goes against several really basic, foundational assumptions about what is and isn't politically permissible or possible that most Americans who don't fall into one or both of two groups hold. Those groups are the middle-class leftist activist 'base' (insofar as it can even be called a base; personally I have no love lost for most of these people) and actual Vermonters. To his own constituents, Bernie is a man of the people and very much a retail politician. But the nature of Vermont as a state is not such that that reputation translates well to a larger stage. Even so the way he operates within Vermont probably means that Sanders could make a pretty respectable dent in that part of the white working class that votes in Democratic primaries if he tries hard and believes in himself. (Almost certainly far more so than with minorities, really. Fantasizing about a scenario in which an improbably strong Sanders campaign creates a situation in which he replicates Clinton's 2008 primary coalition and Clinton replicates Obama's 2008 primary coalition is a fun and surprisingly easy exercise.)

It must be frustrating to Sanders, because there really isn't anything that he's doing wrong, at least nothing that he could be doing differently. It's not a question of incompatibility between his actual views, taken in a vacuum, and those of black America or Hispanic America or whatever. It's also not a question of just throwing together a few ads of him with Jesse Jackson or something; that would be rightly seen as pandering. It's a question of what types of communication and what types of constituent service (or perceived competency at constituent service) his public career so far has prepared him for. And there's nothing he can do about the fact that living out his public career in the great state of Vermont has not prepared him for addressing the needs, interests, predilections, or concerns of most minorities in any really knowledgeable way.
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2015, 11:36:39 AM »

If Sanders wasn't a socialist, he wouldn't even be running.

Maybe Sander's biggest problem is that he strongly selfidentify as a socialist?

According to Gallup's most recent numbers released today, only 47% of US adults say that they would even be willing to consider voting for a socialist. This is below every single denomation tested, including atheist (58%), Muslim (60%), evangelical Christian (surprisingly only 73%!), gay or lesbian (74%), Mormon (81%), Jewish (91%), Hispanic (91%), black (92%), woman (92%) and Catholic (93%). In other words, a socialist presidential candidate is the only one which not even a majority of American voters would be open to consider. What's perhaps just as bad for Sanders: Only 28% of selfproclaimed protestants would be willing to vote for a socialist.

Actually, less people would be willing to vote for a socialist today than the percentage who were willing to vote for a black or female candidate in 1960, the year when the first Catholic president was elected.

Strange they didn't ask for attitude towards Asian, Native American or biracial/multiracial candidates.

More here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/183791/support-nontraditional-candidates-varies-religion.aspx?utm_source=Politics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles

By the way, I wonder what percentage would be willing to support a black, female, Hispanic, socialistic atheist candidate for president?
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Oakvale
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2015, 02:23:49 PM »

Bernie's politics appeal to upper middle class whites and no one else at this point.



Why?

Because he's the Tarpit Stardust (or whoever Cuomo's opponent was) of the 2016 primaries and liberal crusaderism is the whitest thing on the planet.
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Ebsy
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2015, 02:24:37 PM »

Bernie's politics appeal to upper middle class whites and no one else at this point.



Why?

Because he's the Tarpit Stardust (or whoever Cuomo's opponent) was of the 2016 primaries and liberal crusaderism is the whitest thing on the planet.
Not whiter than Sons of the Confederacy civil war reenactments.
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Bull Moose Base
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2015, 02:51:04 PM »

Maybe Sander's biggest problem is that he strongly selfidentify as a socialist?

According to Gallup's most recent numbers released today, only 47% of US adults say that they would even be willing to consider voting for a socialist. This is below every single denomation tested, including atheist (58%), Muslim (60%), evangelical Christian (surprisingly only 73%!), gay or lesbian (74%), Mormon (81%), Jewish (91%), Hispanic (91%), black (92%), woman (92%) and Catholic (93%). In other words, a socialist presidential candidate is the only one which not even a majority of American voters would be open to consider. What's perhaps just as bad for Sanders: Only 28% of selfproclaimed protestants would be willing to vote for a socialist.

Actually, less people would be willing to vote for a socialist today than the percentage who were willing to vote for a black or female candidate in 1960, the year when the first Catholic president was elected.

Strange they didn't ask for attitude towards Asian, Native American or biracial/multiracial candidates.

More here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/183791/support-nontraditional-candidates-varies-religion.aspx?utm_source=Politics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles

By the way, I wonder what percentage would be willing to support a black, female, Hispanic, socialistic atheist candidate for president?

Sanders is about as socialist as the guy who got elected 4 times. If he were nominated, people would listen to his positions and the % of Americans willing to vote for a "socialist" would skyrocket faster than the % of wealth going to the richest 1%.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2015, 02:51:44 PM »

Maybe Sander's biggest problem is that he strongly selfidentify as a socialist?

According to Gallup's most recent numbers released today, only 47% of US adults say that they would even be willing to consider voting for a socialist. This is below every single denomation tested, including atheist (58%), Muslim (60%), evangelical Christian (surprisingly only 73%!), gay or lesbian (74%), Mormon (81%), Jewish (91%), Hispanic (91%), black (92%), woman (92%) and Catholic (93%). In other words, a socialist presidential candidate is the only one which not even a majority of American voters would be open to consider. What's perhaps just as bad for Sanders: Only 28% of selfproclaimed protestants would be willing to vote for a socialist.

Actually, less people would be willing to vote for a socialist today than the percentage who were willing to vote for a black or female candidate in 1960, the year when the first Catholic president was elected.

Strange they didn't ask for attitude towards Asian, Native American or biracial/multiracial candidates.

More here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/183791/support-nontraditional-candidates-varies-religion.aspx?utm_source=Politics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles

By the way, I wonder what percentage would be willing to support a black, female, Hispanic, socialistic atheist candidate for president?

Sanders is about as socialist as the guy who got elected 4 times.
If he were nominated, people would listen to his positions and the % of Americans willing to vote for a "socialist" would skyrocket faster than the % of wealth going to the richest 1%.

In Vermont.
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