Your opinion on Abortion

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

I don't like it at all but it isn't the government's job to dictate morality

So, legalize murder then? And forget property rights. Free to envy thy neighbour's goods!

It isn't the job of the the government to legislate morality, but it is the job to protect its most helpless denizens. If you don't consider them human, then your personal stance on abortion us solely about subjugating women to your authority. That's not what the pro life movement is about. It's stances like that that harm it

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

Pro-life except in case of mother's life.

[RFayette]

To answer the OP, pro-life with the exception of cases where the mother's life is endangered.

[Maxwell]

Pro-Choice up to the Third

[RFayette]

I don't like it at all but it isn't the government's job to dictate morality

That's actually exactly the job of the government. Else why would we have it? And I echo Mr. Fine's comments.

It exists to ensure domestic tranquility and allow people to succeed, not put the morality of the person that happens to be in charge into law. All the progressives here talk about how gay marriage laws shouldn't be based on personal morality, so the same should go for all laws.

How are domestic tranquility and success objectively good things? Politics is a fight to decide whose morality gets to rule. I might as well have it be mine.

Indeed.  "Don't harm me, and I won't harm you; otherwise, do whatever you want" is indeed a moral philosophy of government, though less restrictive than what most would like.  In the abortion issue, since the whole debate rests on whether the fetus is a "proper" human life or not, and pro-lifers take the position that abortion = homicide in most cases, then it's not only an issue of moral philosophy but also of what counts as a "person."

[RINO Tom]

With many PERSONAL moral reservations (which I don't feel I have the right to "put on" a woman), I'm pro-choice until the third trimester.  I think there reaches a point (no, there's no *single moment*, but we've got to pick an arbitrary benchmark, as imperfect as it is) where the "fetus" (read: soon to be a child in a matter of days) is so clearly a living human being that it's near sickening to think that it's as simple as "it's her body!" and then to imply that those who disagree with you don't respect women.

I can tolerate many views on abortion, but what I simply won't respect is someone who's ignorant and enough to not only think this is a simple, cut and dry issue with a simple right answer but also arrogant enough to think THEY have found it.

[H. Ross Peron]

To answer the OP, pro-life with the exception of cases where the mother's life is endangered.

[TNF]

To answer the OP, pro-life with the exception of cases where the mother's life is endangered.

aka pro-subjugation of women

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Pro-life at all stages unless the mother's life is in danger.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Pro-choice 1st trimester, Pro-life 3rd, Pro-I don't have an opinion so I let those who do decide 2nd. No exceptions for rape or incest at any stage.

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

To answer the OP, pro-life with the exception of cases where the mother's life is endangered.

aka pro-subjugation of women

Yep, and most of the policy is being written and handed down by men themselves. The burdens anti-choicers attempt to force onto women are deplorable.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

To answer the OP, pro-life with the exception of cases where the mother's life is endangered.

aka pro-subjugation of women

Part of me would like to think that "labeling theory" might apply here.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

To answer the OP, pro-life with the exception of cases where the mother's life is endangered.

aka pro-subjugation of women

Yep, and most of the policy is being written and handed down by men themselves. The burdens anti-choicers attempt to force onto women are deplorable.

You guys realize that there is no meaningful statistical difference in the way men and women view abortion, right?
And that about half of both women and men identify themselves as pro-life, right?
And that depending on the poll you choose, women are actually more likely than men to choose the "100% pro-life, no exceptions" position, right?
And that many of these "misogynist men handing down subjugation of women" are elected in no small part, by voters who are women, right?
And you do realize, that in a lot of developing countries, sex-selective abortions targeting female fetuses are still a huge problem, right?

Maybe this simplistic mentality of chalking up all pro-life views as "lol, misogynist men" is probably part of the reason why we in the pro-choice camp has been losing so badly over the past few years?

Maybe we should try to understand our enemy better so we can fight them properly, maybe?

[RFayette]

It is amusing how often anti-abortion and anti-women are used synonymously by many liberals; this is a big reason why many pro-life women resist feminism.

[Beet]

The pro choice camp hasn't been "losing so badly" in the past few years:





I would say trends are marginally in the right direction. It's true the Republicans have taken over a lot of legislatures and passed a lot of restrictive legislation, but that doesn't appear to be the result of a shift in public opinion.

Just because men and women are equally likely to identify as pro-choice, that doesn't mean they do so for the same reasons. Women tend to be more communitarian and men tend to be more libertarian, so you would expect an issue like abortion rights to be more popular with men on that basis. On the other hand, abortion rights are a right enjoyed by women, hence it is equally popular with them on that basis.

The idea that there aren't a lot of misogynist men out there who oppose abortion rights based religious objections is complete hogwash. Is every person who opposes abortion rights a misogynist? Of course not. But is a big part of the opposition to abortion religious-driven, and do these religions hold to sexist doctrines? Of course. If pro-life was secular, you would see pro-life movements in countries without a strong religious right, like Japan or France, but you don't.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Pro-choice except in the 3rd trimester with health of the mother/baby exceptions.

Also I love this notion that it's the evil men telling women what they can't do with their own bodies. What a tidy little narrative. It conveniently ignores the fact that women are nearly as opposed to abortion as men are, and even if you nitpick years the numbers are not far apart, obviously must vote for those politicians/policies literally by the millions, and there are plenty of female anti-abortion elected representatives.

My view on abortion more broadly is this: Women should be afforded the right to have an abortion because it is only fair. I think opposition to abortion often is informed by misogynistic attitudes, but it is not entirely so. According to the CDC only something like 1.5% of abortions actually occur in the third trimester, and this is the point where the life argument does genuinely affect me, so there's no real loss in opposing it from then on, in my view, within reason. In the end, the debate on the policy should be had on the merits of the policy, instead of creating fictional narratives about it.

[SWE]

It is amusing how often anti-abortion and anti-women are used synonymously by many liberals; this is a big reason why many pro-life women resist feminism.

Wait, are you saying you think pro-life actually does mean anti-woman?

[Miles]

Pro-life except for mother's life.

[Beet]

Also, even if one believes that the opposition to abortion has nothing to do with sexism (some of it is, even if not all of it is), it's undeniable that restriction of the right to abortion has a disparate impact on women. After all, cis men can't get pregnant! Hence it makes perfect sense why this is a critical issue for feminists and why they frame it as a women's issue.

[Beet]

It is amusing how often anti-abortion and anti-women are used synonymously by many liberals; this is a big reason why many pro-life women resist feminism.

Wait, are you saying you think pro-life actually does mean anti-woman?

I don't think he was saying that, but I'm not going to speak for him, so he should answer your question.

What I believe he was hinting at is something I've argued about with other feminists a lot, as of late. While I am a feminist and pro-choice, within the feminist movement the dominant view on abortion is being pro-choice, and anyone who isn't is derided as "self-hating" and "misogynist" and spitting out the "misogynist white old men controlling women's bodies!!!".

Well if you are pro-choice and a feminist, people who are anti-choice are, from your perspective, trying to take away a pretty fundamental woman's right for reasons you regard are illegitimate. Even if that person's motivations are not misogynist, the effect is the same. It's just like people who oppose SSM but claim to love gays- if you really loved them, you'd give them their legitimate rights. Combine that with, the fact that there really are a lot of misogynist white old men who want to control women's bodies, and that sexism and a need to control women's reproductive function underlies the religious base of the U.S. pro-life movement, and you have a pretty legitimate case that feminists should be worried about it.

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Again, no one is saying that there aren't pro-life women out there who believe that abortion is murder and that the movement feminist movement is about murder. No one has ever said that. Also, I believe that no woman, not even women who think women are dumber, weaker, morally inferior to men and don't deserve the right to vote, want to be treated as an object, disrespected, denied opportunities, raped, told their place by a man, or live lives as appendages of their husbands just for being a woman. If any woman really didn't mind those things, they wouldn't mind those things were they a man, either. So in a sense, Germaine Greer is right when she says that every woman is a feminist, whether she calls herself one or not. Still, simply being a woman does not mean that every one of your opinions is automatically a feminist opinion.

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And why is that a problem? Not everyone has to, or should identify as a feminist. If a majority of people started identifying as feminist and society continued to look as it does today for any length of time, then there would be something wrong with feminism. Supporting actual equality is far more important than what label you attach to yourself. In fact, the only reason I call myself a feminist is for reasons of convenience. Anyone who could peer into my brain would see a feminist, so it would be dishonest to disavow a term with good communicative value. But I would prefer to use a different term because the word 'feminism' conjures up a socio-political movement heavily Western-centric, Anglo-centric and white-centric. I would prefer just to call it women's rights/equality. And of course, there will be a diversity of views within what is called 'feminism'. My views are only my own, and I speak for no one else. Another problem with the term 'feminism' is that it conjures up some sort of monolithic movement of millions of people marching in lockstep, when that couldn't be farther from the truth. No matter who you are, there will always be people in the movement who disagree with you on some matter or another.

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Well, I see sexism as pretty black and white, and abortion as pretty black and white, but many feminists take the view of 'I think it should be legal but I would never do it myself/it's a necessary evil'. There are a lot of feminists who see abortion as a gray issue. But there are a lot who see it as black and white as well, and they're entitled to argue with people who disagree with them. If you're looking for a pure, perfectly reasonable mass entity under the umbrella of this silly term 'feminism', you're never going to find it.

[Boston Bread]

Pro-Freedom

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Pro-life.   The main question is: is the unborn child a life that deserves society's protection?  Until we face that issue, it doesn't make sense to get hung up on exceptions to some hypothetical legislation.

[RINO Tom]

Pro-Freedom

This comment.  Ugh.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Pro-choice (not a wishy-washy Moderate Hero on women's basic rights).

[Marokai Backbeat]

Pro-choice (not a wishy-washy Moderate Hero on women's basic rights).

What's a moderate hero position on this issue, in your view?