Do a majority of white posters on here have any idea what poverty is like?

[Mechaman]

Obviously not judging by the subjects of ire that seem to consume them in the US General Discussion and Individual Politics board (sane).

[TNF]

Given our overwhelmingly suburban demographic (and that's not to say that poverty doesn't exist in the suburbs, because it does), combined with the fact that just about everyone on here comes from a middle class background (remember the threads we've had on 'what do your parents do for a living'? Pretty much everyone here, with a few notable exceptions, is the child of mid-level managers or professionals), would lead me to think that no, most of them don't.

This isn't at all surprising, but that's true of most liberals as is. They don't empathize with the poor or seek to build solidarity with them, they pity them. That's where their politics comes from - not a position of wanting to help someone raise themselves up and assert their own dignity, but one of pity and sanctimonious holier-than-thou bullsh**t about great it is that they 'care' as opposed to conservatives.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Given our overwhelmingly suburban demographic (and that's not to say that poverty doesn't exist in the suburbs, because it does), combined with the fact that just about everyone on here comes from a middle class background (remember the threads we've had on 'what do your parents do for a living'? Pretty much everyone here, with a few notable exceptions, is the child of mid-level managers or professionals), would lead me to think that no, most of them don't.

This isn't at all surprising, but that's true of most liberals as is. They don't empathize with the poor or seek to build solidarity with them, they pity them. That's where their politics comes from - not a position of wanting to help someone raise themselves up and assert their own dignity, but one of pity and sanctimonious holier-than-thou bullsh**t about great it is that they 'care' as opposed to conservatives.

Yes, everybody on this forum is a patronizing, self-righteous middle-class liberal. You, on the other hand, are totally justified in being patronizing and self-righteous toward any social or ideological category of people that isn't yours.

[Mechaman]

Now, I am not going to make the same large scale character assassinations as TNF, but I would like to comment further that I find it incredible that a thread on some random Arkansas legislator nobody knows saying slavery was good for blacks (as admittedly outrageous and downright awful that comment is) gets a lot more outrage than heads of multi-billion dollar corporations and even presidential nominees claiming it's okay that millions of Americans live in abject poverty.  The only time people even really seemed upset and outraged was when Romney was dumb enough to claim that 47% of Americans mooch off the government.  In fact we even have Atlas posters who somehow believe that starvation is acceptable "if you don't work hard".

Not saying that the former isn't a big deal, surely apologism for the white supremacist confederacy is no small deal and it should be reported.  However, comments like the latter generally refer to something that is ongoing and that millions of people in this country who are better off are outright refusing to deal with and even justify in many cases.  I think I am the last person on this website who would claim the past isn't important however at the end of the day issues of the present are the things that should matter.  To me it seems that there is a very large group of people in this country who care more about "symbolic" actions than "meaningful" actions.

[windjammer]

Lol,
This thread is so typical old atlas.

[dead0man]

I've spent hours in a WIC office in Biloxi Mississippi....what do I win?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Now, I am not going to make the same large scale character assassinations as TNF, but I would like to comment further that I find it incredible that a thread on some random Arkansas legislator nobody knows saying slavery was good for blacks (as admittedly outrageous and downright awful that comment is) gets a lot more outrage than heads of multi-billion dollar corporations and even presidential nominees claiming it's okay that millions of Americans live in abject poverty.  The only time people even really seemed upset and outraged was when Romney was dumb enough to claim that 47% of Americans mooch off the government.  In fact we even have Atlas posters who somehow believe that starvation is acceptable "if you don't work hard".

Not saying that the former isn't a big deal, surely apologism for the white supremacist confederacy is no small deal and it should be reported.  However, comments like the latter generally refer to something that is ongoing and that millions of people in this country who are better off are outright refusing to deal with and even justify in many cases.  I think I am the last person on this website who would claim the past isn't important however at the end of the day issues of the present are the things that should matter.  To me it seems that there is a very large group of people in this country who care more about "symbolic" actions than "meaningful" actions.

Actually, I've seen plenty of outrage on this forum when a Republican says stupid/horrible things about poor people, similarly to when they say stupid/horrible things about blacks, women or immigrants. I haven't bothered to quantify it, as I never thought that there would be a contest between these different kinds of assholery, but sorry if I'm missing something.

[Maxwell]

I don't think many of the posters here of any race have any idea what poverty is like. I know I sure don't.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I don't think many of the posters here of any race have any idea what poverty is like. I know I sure don't.

This.

I would have posted something along those lines if I hadn't been distracted by TNF's sanctimonious drivel.

[ElectionsGuy]

No, but I probably will in a few years.

[DemPGH]

Probably not, but who has no idea what poverty even is are the people who say in one way or another that "it is your fault if you are poor." What I think has happened is that there are a lot of cultural forces in society (religion and corporate/advertising, namely) that go to great lengths to foster the idea that if you're poor it's your fault, you haven't tried hard enough, you're lazy, a spendthrift, etc. Since that attitude is so pervasive and has largely been bought into by people who are middle class or even lower middle class, I really don't think so, and it has a lot to do with the prism through which they see or are told about the issue. Corporate culture also goes to great lengths to foster resentment of union workers as freeloaders, etc., and so on, so it's all not really surprising.

[afleitch]

I do actually.

I spent my first years in house with no heating, where the windows frosted inside and we had to sometimes share a bed for warmth. The home was later condemned. My dad worked all the hours he could get and my mum worked two jobs on and off including cleaning other people’s houses after we had went to bed. Food and money was stretched. My grandparents had to buy my shoes. This was the late 80’s early 90’s, not some mid-century poverty. My mum eventually trained as a teacher and my dad worked his way up, but I’ve known poverty.

[RINO Tom]

Nope, and I'm frankly glad I don't.

[Mechaman]

Guys, apologies for the earlier rant.  Kind of winded at work right now.

Anyway, this was mostly a rant directed at people seeing the forest for the trees on race issues (ie, the perception that racism permeates from a flag or what have you) and other matters while the economic elephant in the room is oft ignored.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I've spent hours in a WIC office in Biloxi Mississippi....what do I win?

Lots and lots of milk.  And also some juicy juice.

[TNF]

I don't think many of the posters here of any race have any idea what poverty is like. I know I sure don't.

This.

I would have posted something along those lines if I hadn't been distracted by TNF's sanctimonious drivel.

I don't think you have any right to call anyone sanctimonious. You're literally prude_brood.txt and seem to have something stuck so far up your ass at all times that you're literally incapable of communicating with other people if you're not giving them a lecture about how awful they are.

And at any rate, I think you should probably refrain from speaking about poverty, as I seem to recall you saying once that 'social classes don't exist' on IRC, which is pretty lol, even for you.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm pretty sure you are well-versed in the academic debate over the nature and character of social stratification, and the various paradigms that it has inspired (of which class is one of many). You just chose to ignore it in order to get a cheap shot. Classy.

As for the first part of your post, LOL.

[TNF]

I'm pretty sure you are well-versed in the academic debate over the nature and character of social stratification, and the various paradigms that it has inspired (of which class is one of many). You just chose to ignore it in order to get a cheap shot. Classy.

As for the first part of your post, LOL.

It's not an academic debate for me, dipsh**t. It's a lived reality. So excuse me if I don't take your 'lol class don't real' bullsh**t seriously.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm pretty sure you are well-versed in the academic debate over the nature and character of social stratification, and the various paradigms that it has inspired (of which class is one of many). You just chose to ignore it in order to get a cheap shot. Classy.

As for the first part of your post, LOL.

It's not an academic debate for me, dipsh**t. It's a lived reality. So excuse me if I don't take your 'lol class don't real' bullsh**t seriously.

Jesus F**king Christ man, now you're resorting to actual insults? And I'm the one who's unable to communicate with other people? Seriously, it's not healthy to get so worked up about some guy on the internet you've never met. All we are doing is exchanging opinions.

Believe it or not, I deeply respect your working-class background and fully acknowledge that you have had it harder than I ever have and hopefully ever will. That doesn't give you the right to think you're better than everybody else, or that everyone who disagrees with you is a bad person. You can have strong opinions and still have some respect for your interlocutor.

[Dr. Cynic]

I'm not in poverty now, but I have known it. I don't think there was a year during my childhood where we made over 20,000 dollars a year. We were on foodstamps and I started bringing in money at 16 because I had to. I didn't get to keep that money that I brought in performing in small Elks clubs and places like that that did open mics. I was homeless at 18 for almost 7 months... I lived in a two room apartment for awhile and I ate ketchup packet soup because I would only have a few dollars and I had to decide what that was going to go for... It wasn't fun.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I'm not in poverty now, but I have known it. I don't think there was a year during my childhood where we made over 20,000 dollars a year. We were on foodstamps and I started bringing in money at 16 because I had to. I didn't get to keep that money that I brought in performing in small Elks clubs and places like that that did open mics. I was homeless at 18 for almost 7 months... I lived in a two room apartment for awhile and I ate ketchup packet soup because I would only have a few dollars and I had to decide what that was going to go for... It wasn't fun.

And you can say this stuff...but it wont register for most people here.  They simply have no idea.

[dead0man]

I've spent hours in a WIC office in Biloxi Mississippi....what do I win?

Lots and lots of milk.  And also some juicy juice.

Also, King Vitamin cereal and cheese....lots of cheese.


To be clear, I've never been as poor as the good Doctor was, but poor enough.  I've always had a gig, never lived out of a car or ate ketchup packets.

[Torie]

Most of our posters I am sure have seen programs on it, so yes. Yes, I know, that is different than personally experiencing it, but that is not the question. I have vivid stories from my Dad when he lived it, that made my hair stand on end. And yes, that is not the same either. Neither is seeing it personally in apartments in a couple of buildings that I was buying in Hudson. But the visual impressions will be with me for the rest of my life. Just awful.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I'm relatively fortunate, but both of my parents grew up poor and I learned a lot from them.

[Gustaf]

Knowing what it's like is not particularly difficult if one has empathy and isn't ignorant. Of course, experiencing something is a different thing but I don't that is required for basic understanding.