Do a majority of white posters on here have any idea what poverty is like?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

We have more than a handful of non-white posters? In any case poverty is a curious thing; you and I may well disagree on what it means and in what context, and I myself might disagree with myself on what it means intellectually and personally. Surely you can't have been poor if people weren't out picking coal off slag heaps to survive, right? I maintain, of course, that you have no right to think such thoughts unless they do directly relate to personal experience in some way.

What I will note is that there is a significant difference between short-term problems caused by having no money (which is bitter but usually resolves itself fairly quickly) and the grinding horror of having not quite enough over an extended (and quite possibly permanent) period of time. The two things can be related but are ultimately not the same thing. I would also note that having been poor (no matter how defined) does not confer nobility of spirit or make you a better person.

[YaBoyNY]

Yes. I grew up in a single parent household after I was 7, and even before I was 7, I can't remember us having much in the way of a luxurious living. We had two TVs and even a crappy computer (it was also the 90's, so I'd gander to guess that that computer was absolutely horrendous), but my father lived paycheck to paycheck, my mom stayed home to take care of 3 of us (there was no disposable income for daycare for us), and when my dad did leave, I remember not getting a single thing new in our house until my brother started working and started buying his own clothes, of which I did the same once I was 12 and got my first off the books job. It felt really amazing to be able to buy new clothes, -my own clothes-, and wear them, and not just use hand-me-downs.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I don't think many of the posters here of any race have any idea what poverty is like. I know I sure don't.

This.

I would have posted something along those lines if I hadn't been distracted by TNF's sanctimonious drivel.

I don't think you have any right to call anyone sanctimonious.

Pot meet kettle...

You're literally prude_brood.txt

This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject being debated, but whatever

and seem to have something stuck so far up your ass at all times that you're literally incapable of communicating with other people if you're not giving them a lecture about how awful they are.

Err...you realize that the same could easily be said of you, right?

And at any rate, I think you should probably refrain from speaking about poverty,

And you should probably refrain from speaking about anything relating to liberalism (or the straw-man "liberalism" you love to complain about) before you give yourself an ulcer.

as I seem to recall you saying once that 'social classes don't exist' on IRC,

If he said that and it isn't ridiculously out of context then that is pretty cringe-worthy, so fair enough.

which is pretty lol, even for you.

On the other hand, you would obviously never say something that was completely absurd, cringe-worthy, with little-to-no basis in reality

[Antonio the Sixth]

as I seem to recall you saying once that 'social classes don't exist' on IRC,

If he said that and it isn't ridiculously out of context then that is pretty cringe-worthy, so fair enough.

For the record (and in the hope to end this bullsh*t once and for all), what happened is that I expressed my disagreement with the class-based paradigm in sociology, which pertains to a particular conception of how society is structured. Obviously no sociologist with half a brain has ever argued that social hierarchy does not exist, but views differ on the way this hierarchy plays out. In academic debates, the term of "class" refers specifically to the Marxist view of society, which has very little relevance to modern western societies.

The problem is that "class" has another, much more loose meaning in common American parlance, and that obviously in that sense saying that "classes don't exist" would be moronic. Of course, TNF doesn't give a sh*t about these nuances if they could preventing from getting a cheap shot at a goddamn lib'rul.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

as I seem to recall you saying once that 'social classes don't exist' on IRC,

If he said that and it isn't ridiculously out of context then that is pretty cringe-worthy, so fair enough.

For the record (and in the hope to end this bullsh*t once and for all), what happened is that I expressed my disagreement with the class-based paradigm in sociology, which pertains to a particular conception of how society is structured. Obviously no sociologist with half a brain has ever argued that social hierarchy does not exist, but views differ on the way this hierarchy plays out. In academic debates, the term of "class" refers specifically to the Marxist view of society, which has very little relevance to modern western societies.

The problem is that "class" has another, much more loose meaning in common American parlance, and that obviously in that sense saying that "classes don't exist" would be moronic. Of course, TNF doesn't give a sh*t about these nuances if they could preventing from getting a cheap shot at a goddamn lib'rul.

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

[Gustaf]

We have more than a handful of non-white posters? In any case poverty is a curious thing; you and I may well disagree on what it means and in what context, and I myself might disagree with myself on what it means intellectually and personally. Surely you can't have been poor if people weren't out picking coal off slag heaps to survive, right? I maintain, of course, that you have no right to think such thoughts unless they do directly relate to personal experience in some way.

What I will note is that there is a significant difference between short-term problems caused by having no money (which is bitter but usually resolves itself fairly quickly) and the grinding horror of having not quite enough over an extended (and quite possibly permanent) period of time. The two things can be related but are ultimately not the same thing. I would also note that having been poor (no matter how defined) does not confer nobility of spirit or make you a better person.

Just wanted to express agreement with all of the above.

[anvi]

Also agree with Sibboleth.  I can't make any claims about what the majority of posters on here.  I'll only add that, while I've never experienced desperate poverty myself (though I did live on about $350 a month for a couple of years), some of my relatives have experienced periods of homelessness and extended periods when they could not afford to even buy meager clothing when old clothing had completely worn out.  I've also spent fair amounts of time in large and mid-sized cities in India and China where many people live in fairly desperate poverty, meaning families and even small children living permanently on the streets or sent out to beg for money by mobs after these mobs had purchased the children from their rural parents.  So I'd say all of this has given me an idea of what poverty is like, yes.    

[Badger]

We have more than a handful of non-white posters? In any case poverty is a curious thing; you and I may well disagree on what it means and in what context, and I myself might disagree with myself on what it means intellectually and personally. Surely you can't have been poor if people weren't out picking coal off slag heaps to survive, right? I maintain, of course, that you have no right to think such thoughts unless they do directly relate to personal experience in some way.

What I will note is that there is a significant difference between short-term problems caused by having no money (which is bitter but usually resolves itself fairly quickly) and the grinding horror of having not quite enough over an extended (and quite possibly permanent) period of time. The two things can be related but are ultimately not the same thing. I would also note that having been poor (no matter how defined) does not confer nobility of spirit or make you a better person.

Just wanted to express agreement with all of the above.

This.

And re: OP--no, thank God.

[DC Al Fine]

No, not at all. My parents may not have been one percenters, but they certainly are two or three percenters.

[RR1997]

I'm not white and I don't have any idea what poverty is like.

[DS0816]

Re: Do a majority of white posters on here have any idea what poverty is like?

No.

[courts]

obviously not.

a good chunk of my friends have been homeless or on the verge of being out on the streets. i tend to get along better with working class people for some reason

[TNF]

I don't think many of the posters here of any race have any idea what poverty is like. I know I sure don't.

This.

I would have posted something along those lines if I hadn't been distracted by TNF's sanctimonious drivel.

I don't think you have any right to call anyone sanctimonious.

Pot meet kettle...

You're literally prude_brood.txt

This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject being debated, but whatever

and seem to have something stuck so far up your ass at all times that you're literally incapable of communicating with other people if you're not giving them a lecture about how awful they are.

Err...you realize that the same could easily be said of you, right?

And at any rate, I think you should probably refrain from speaking about poverty,

And you should probably refrain from speaking about anything relating to liberalism (or the straw-man "liberalism" you love to complain about) before you give yourself an ulcer.

as I seem to recall you saying once that 'social classes don't exist' on IRC,

If he said that and it isn't ridiculously out of context then that is pretty cringe-worthy, so fair enough.

which is pretty lol, even for you.

On the other hand, you would obviously never say something that was completely absurd, cringe-worthy, with little-to-no basis in reality

If I were you, I would refrain from criticizing others for posting things that are 'completely absurd' (given your wanton disregard for scientific evidence anytime drug usage is brought up), 'cringe-worthy' (given that you have no real position on any subject other than 'man that sounds okay, but I think you're going TOO FAR'), or things that have 'little-to-no basis in reality' (your insane diatribes about how Israel is the 'only democracy' in the Middle East, how the Palestinians are in the wrong in demanding that they not be slaughtered en masse so that the Zionist-imperialists can take their land, etc, etc.).

[Mr. Smith]

Well said Maxie, well said. I was actually gonna say that myself, no joke.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If I were you,

Well you're not me, are you?  No?  That's what I thought.  But please, go on with your smug, self-rightious, dishonest post.

I would refrain from criticizing others for posting things that are 'completely absurd'
(given your wanton disregard for scientific evidence anytime drug usage is brought up),

I know this may come as a bit of a shock to you, TNF.  But just because you personally believe something doesn't make it an objective fact.

 

date=1435724601]'cringe-worthy' (given that you have no real position on any subject other than 'man that sounds okay, but I think you're going TOO FAR'),

So you're pretty obviously lying through your teeth on this one.  But what's most disappointing is that you literally contradicted yourself in less than one sentence.  How can I be an uncompromising, foaming  at the mouth, "drugs are bad mmk" fanatic if I don't have any positions on anything beyond "insert generic Moderate Heroism here?"

or things that have 'little-to-no basis in reality' (your insane diatribes about how Israel is the 'only democracy' in the Middle East,

I'm pretty sure I've never even said that in any of my posts prior to this one, let alone made anything remotely resembling a diatribe about it.  It is an objective fact that Israel is currently the only democracy in the Middle East, but the interesting thing is that you seem to be assuming I've gone on many lengthy tirades about that because I'm Jewish.  

how the Palestinians are in the wrong in demanding that they not be slaughtered en masse so that the Zionist-imperialists can take their land, etc, etc.).

Please cite a post where I said "Palestinians should be slaughtered en masse so Zionist-imperialists can take their land."  You know what, you don't even have to do that.  Find a post where I said "Palestinians should be slaughtered en masse."  Hint: No such post exists because I've never said that.

[MalaspinaGold]

If I were you,

Well you're not me, are you?  No?  That's what I thought.  But please, go on with your smug, self-rightious, dishonest post.

I would refrain from criticizing others for posting things that are 'completely absurd'
(given your wanton disregard for scientific evidence anytime drug usage is brought up),

I know this may come as a bit of a shock to you, TNF.  But just because you personally believe something doesn't make it an objective fact.

 

date=1435724601]'cringe-worthy' (given that you have no real position on any subject other than 'man that sounds okay, but I think you're going TOO FAR'),

So you're pretty obviously lying through your teeth on this one.  But what's most disappointing is that you literally contradicted yourself in less than one sentence.  How can I be an uncompromising, foaming  at the mouth, "drugs are bad mmk" fanatic if I don't have any positions on anything beyond "insert generic Moderate Heroism here?"

or things that have 'little-to-no basis in reality' (your insane diatribes about how Israel is the 'only democracy' in the Middle East,

I'm pretty sure I've never even said that in any of my posts prior to this one, let alone made anything remotely resembling a diatribe about it.  It is an objective fact that Israel is currently the only democracy in the Middle East, but the interesting thing is that you seem to be assuming I've gone on many lengthy tirades about that because I'm Jewish.  

how the Palestinians are in the wrong in demanding that they not be slaughtered en masse so that the Zionist-imperialists can take their land, etc, etc.).

Please cite a post where I said "Palestinians should be slaughtered en masse so Zionist-imperialists can take their land."  You know what, you don't even have to do that.  Find a post where I said "Palestinians should be slaughtered en masse."  Hint: No such post exists because I've never said that.

This isn't really true considering Turkey/Tunisia nowadays. Rest of your post is good though.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why does every twentieth political discussion on the internet have to come back to that issue?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Why does every twentieth political discussion on the internet have to come back to that issue?

Because TNF is desperate for a sick burn.

[Mechaman]

So

I, in a frustrating day at the office, post yet another self-righteous rant about the ignorance of economic issues largely as a TAKE THAT! to the rich suburban liberal straw man I created in my head.........and the discussion STILL ends up being about ISRAEL?

I smell a greedy monopolistic Bilderberg agenda at play here.

[Badger]

May I ask what you do, Mechman?

[Mechaman]

May I ask what you do, Mechman?

Accounting for a large company.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Not at all (though the qualifier of the posters being white is hardly necessary). It doesn't stop them from pontificating on the conditions of the impoverished, any more than the males on this forum refrain from holding forth on the conditions of women.

[Indy Texas]

From personal experience, no.

But the line of work I'm in has certainly provided me with more understanding of why some people are poor and what those factors, some in and some not in their control, are. It's certainly a more informed, nuanced view of 21st century American poverty than either the Reaganite Welfare Queen trope or the belief that all poor people are toiling in Dickensian factories for 20 hours a day as TNF and others seem to believe.