Breaking: Supreme Court rules SSM a legal right

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Many of us are bullied by LGBT leftists. Just ask Baronelle Stutzman who had to shut down her business. Does "it get better" for her ?

she absolutely did not have to shut down her business. what are you even talking about?

She was given the choice of providing flowers to same-sex marriages

exactly.

[Mr. Illini]

I am a couple days late because I haven't had time to hop on the forum, but what a victory! Especially those who have supported SSM from the times of unpopularity. It has been a long struggle.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Not sure where the inconsistency lies.

I don't believe conversion therapy works. It's not possible to dislike something that is uncontrolled or chosen now ?

Once again, there are a very small few people that it does work on. Small as in maybe 1 out of 10000.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Not sure where the inconsistency lies.

I don't believe conversion therapy works. It's not possible to dislike something that is uncontrolled or chosen now ?

Once again, there are a very small few people that it does work on. Small as in maybe 1 out of 10000.

Those people have almost certainly either lied about being converted to fit in/promote a friend's therapy center or were never gay in the first place and just forced into therapy based on their family's perception of them.

[WVdemocrat]

Not sure where the inconsistency lies.

I don't believe conversion therapy works. It's not possible to dislike something that is uncontrolled or chosen now?

But you said that if it did work, you would do it. So, either you're a troll or you have some serious self-hate issues.

[7,052,770]

Not sure where the inconsistency lies.

I don't believe conversion therapy works. It's not possible to dislike something that is uncontrolled or chosen now ?

Once again, there are a very small few people that it does work on. Small as in maybe 1 out of 10000.

Any "conversion" should be easily explained by a bisexual settling down with a member of the opposite sex and no longer identifying as LGBT.

[CountryClassSF]

But you said that if it did work, you would do it.

Yup, and I also explained why.

[WVdemocrat]

But you said that if it did work, you would do it.

Yup, and I also explained why.

The only "explanation" I've ever heard from you is you despise "gay culture." Is that what you're referring to? What is "gay culture" to you?

[Will of the People]

Russians and muslims are going to go ape sh**t over this.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Many of us are bullied by LGBT leftists. Just ask Baronelle Stutzman who had to shut down her business. Does "it get better" for her ?

she absolutely did not have to shut down her business. what are you even talking about?

She was given the choice of providing flowers to same-sex marriages

exactly.

Yes, that's right you always have a choice.  Your livelihood or your moral identity.  Why would anyone complain, they at least get one or the other?   They should just be grateful they aren't stripped of their capacity for free will altogether.

[CountryClassSF]

Yes, that's right you always have a choice.  Your livelihood or your moral identity.  Why would anyone complain, they at least get one or the other?   They should just be grateful they aren't stripped of their capacity for free will altogether.

CLAP

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

Many of us are bullied by LGBT leftists. Just ask Baronelle Stutzman who had to shut down her business. Does "it get better" for her ?

she absolutely did not have to shut down her business. what are you even talking about?

She was given the choice of providing flowers to same-sex marriages

exactly.

Yes, that's right you always have a choice.  Your livelihood or your moral identity.  Why would anyone complain, they at least get one or the other?   They should just be grateful they aren't stripped of their capacity for free will altogether.

The US government just keeps trampling on the ability of good old Christian store owners to self-actualize. First in 1964, when they had to start serving those dirty negroes, and now in 2015, where they have to serve those vile gays.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Many of us are bullied by LGBT leftists. Just ask Baronelle Stutzman who had to shut down her business. Does "it get better" for her ?

she absolutely did not have to shut down her business. what are you even talking about?

She was given the choice of providing flowers to same-sex marriages

exactly.

Yes, that's right you always have a choice.  Your livelihood or your moral identity.  Why would anyone complain, they at least get one or the other?   They should just be grateful they aren't stripped of their capacity for free will altogether.

The US government just keeps trampling on the ability of good old Christian store owners to self-actualize. First in 1964, when they had to start serving those dirty negroes, and now in 2015, where they have to serve those vile gays.

I'm sure all those people braved the dogs and fire hoses because they didn't get their first choice of wedding cake.

[pbrower2a]

Of course. A black person (unless winning the genetic lottery that allows one to pass as white if one so wished) could never hide being black even by identifying with some stereotypically-white culture. Not all gays are flagrant in behavior, and a gay who isn't flagrant can seem straight until he finds himself getting the attention of a female that every straight person thinks irresistible. 

Clarence Thomas can't hide that he is black even if he rejects the usual expectations of mainstream black politics.

[Platypus]

There is no one man more responsible for this than Karl Rove. If he hadn't used what was essentially a fringe issue to stoke fear ahead of the 2004 election, same sex marriage would never have advanced as rapidly in the US as it did. He focused the efforts of campaigners in favour of it, but moreso, he had people talking about the issue and engaging with it over their dinner tables a decade ago. And in that time, no argument against it has stood up. As less and less people accept "I just don't like it", full nation-wide legalisation became inevitable, and while it's a shame it took the courts to do it, it was always on it's way... and while he wasn't the main reason, Karl Rove deserves more credit than any other individual for it, I think.

[CountryClassSF]

Doesn't surprise me. Rove is known as a mega SSM supporter in conservative circles. 

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Many of us are bullied by LGBT leftists. Just ask Baronelle Stutzman who had to shut down her business. Does "it get better" for her ?

she absolutely did not have to shut down her business. what are you even talking about?

She was given the choice of providing flowers to same-sex marriages

exactly.

Yes, that's right you always have a choice.  Your livelihood or your moral identity.  Why would anyone complain, they at least get one or the other?   They should just be grateful they aren't stripped of their capacity for free will altogether.

if your moral identity is founded on hatred of minorities, then it's not a moral identity worth protecting.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

There is no one man more responsible for this than Karl Rove. If he hadn't used what was essentially a fringe issue to stoke fear ahead of the 2004 election, same sex marriage would never have advanced as rapidly in the US as it did. He focused the efforts of campaigners in favour of it, but moreso, he had people talking about the issue and engaging with it over their dinner tables a decade ago. And in that time, no argument against it has stood up. As less and less people accept "I just don't like it", full nation-wide legalisation became inevitable, and while it's a shame it took the courts to do it, it was always on it's way... and while he wasn't the main reason, Karl Rove deserves more credit than any other individual for it, I think.

The fact that statistically speaking it didn't do anything for the election either is also some great poetic justice.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Many of us are bullied by LGBT leftists. Just ask Baronelle Stutzman who had to shut down her business. Does "it get better" for her ?

she absolutely did not have to shut down her business. what are you even talking about?

She was given the choice of providing flowers to same-sex marriages

exactly.

Yes, that's right you always have a choice.  Your livelihood or your moral identity.  Why would anyone complain, they at least get one or the other?   They should just be grateful they aren't stripped of their capacity for free will altogether.

if your moral identity is founded on hatred of minorities, then it's not a moral identity worth protecting.

It's not a matter of hating minorities.  Maybe if you would listen to people's objections for a second before you tried to make them illegal you would understand that.

You know what's not worth protecting?  The right to call in the government and punish people  every time you don't get your way.

[pbrower2a]

There is no one man more responsible for this than Karl Rove. If he hadn't used what was essentially a fringe issue to stoke fear ahead of the 2004 election, same sex marriage would never have advanced as rapidly in the US as it did. He focused the efforts of campaigners in favour of it, but moreso, he had people talking about the issue and engaging with it over their dinner tables a decade ago. And in that time, no argument against it has stood up. As less and less people accept "I just don't like it", full nation-wide legalisation became inevitable, and while it's a shame it took the courts to do it, it was always on it's way... and while he wasn't the main reason, Karl Rove deserves more credit than any other individual for it, I think.

He effectively forced homosexuals to make their case to straight people that same-sex marriage isn't about getting access to vulnerable children and then getting away with  abuse and brutalization of children. At that, gays and lesbians won. They established that homosexuality was not itself perversion.

Gays and lesbians can still appreciate children for all the right reasons. Gay men simply can't love men and lesbian women simply can't love men. If such is the only difference, then is that all bad?

When children become the targets of homophobia, homophobia is child abuse. As a straight male who has frequently known homophobia directed at me as a child because I was a 'sissy', I find that standing up for gay and lesbian rights is the best way to marginalize homophobia that hurt me.  

[MaxQue]

Many of us are bullied by LGBT leftists. Just ask Baronelle Stutzman who had to shut down her business. Does "it get better" for her ?

she absolutely did not have to shut down her business. what are you even talking about?

She was given the choice of providing flowers to same-sex marriages

exactly.

Yes, that's right you always have a choice.  Your livelihood or your moral identity.  Why would anyone complain, they at least get one or the other?   They should just be grateful they aren't stripped of their capacity for free will altogether.

But baking a plain cake, which could be used any marriage, gay or straight isn't related at all to moral identity. In short, if they baker has to ask to know than it's for a gay marriage, I don't see how it infringes on his moral identity (and really, he shouldn't inquire about the private life of the owner).

If I order a plain cake, with no writing on it, I don't expect the baker to ask me for which reason I need a cake. If I take the next step of your argument, if a gay couple orders in a restaurant, it might offend the moral identity of the cook.

If they ask a special cake for a gay wedding, right, you have a point and I stand with the right of owner to accept or decline any special order. But, for a plain cake, no, you have no point, since they make tons of them anyways. That cake would be done in any case, it would just be sold to a straight couple a few hours later. It requires no moral involvement of the baker, unlike a special order.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Many of us are bullied by LGBT leftists. Just ask Baronelle Stutzman who had to shut down her business. Does "it get better" for her ?

she absolutely did not have to shut down her business. what are you even talking about?

She was given the choice of providing flowers to same-sex marriages

exactly.

Yes, that's right you always have a choice.  Your livelihood or your moral identity.  Why would anyone complain, they at least get one or the other?   They should just be grateful they aren't stripped of their capacity for free will altogether.

But baking a plain cake, which could be used any marriage, gay or straight isn't related at all to moral identity. In short, if they baker has to ask to know than it's for a gay marriage, I don't see how it infringes on his moral identity (and really, he shouldn't inquire about the private life of the owner).

If I order a plain cake, with no writing on it, I don't expect the baker to ask me for which reason I need a cake. If I take the next step of your argument, if a gay couple orders in a restaurant, it might offend the moral identity of the cook.

If they ask a special cake for a gay wedding, right, you have a point and I stand with the right of owner to accept or decline any special order. But, for a plain cake, no, you have no point, since they make tons of them anyways. That cake would be done in any case, it would just be sold to a straight couple a few hours later. It requires no moral involvement of the baker, unlike a special order.

Generally wedding cakes for made specifically for the event, they aren't just sitting there on a shelf. In the Stutzman case, she offered to sell them the flowers and raw materials for the event and just not arrange them, but this didn't prevent her losing a lawsuit against her.

If on the other hand couples aren't asking for a cake, a photographer or a florist to make things specifically for a same-sex wedding, then that is different.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Many of us are bullied by LGBT leftists. Just ask Baronelle Stutzman who had to shut down her business. Does "it get better" for her ?

she absolutely did not have to shut down her business. what are you even talking about?

She was given the choice of providing flowers to same-sex marriages

exactly.

Yes, that's right you always have a choice.  Your livelihood or your moral identity.  Why would anyone complain, they at least get one or the other?   They should just be grateful they aren't stripped of their capacity for free will altogether.

if your moral identity is founded on hatred of minorities, then it's not a moral identity worth protecting.

It's not a matter of hating minorities.  Maybe if you would listen to people's objections for a second before you tried to make them illegal you would understand that.

You know what's not worth protecting?  The right to call in the government and punish people  every time you don't get your way.

hatred, contempt, same difference. the point is that her supposed "moral identity" apparently rests on the idea that homosexuality is a defect or whatever.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Many of us are bullied by LGBT leftists. Just ask Baronelle Stutzman who had to shut down her business. Does "it get better" for her ?

she absolutely did not have to shut down her business. what are you even talking about?

She was given the choice of providing flowers to same-sex marriages

exactly.

Yes, that's right you always have a choice.  Your livelihood or your moral identity.  Why would anyone complain, they at least get one or the other?   They should just be grateful they aren't stripped of their capacity for free will altogether.

if your moral identity is founded on hatred of minorities, then it's not a moral identity worth protecting.

It's not a matter of hating minorities.  Maybe if you would listen to people's objections for a second before you tried to make them illegal you would understand that.

You know what's not worth protecting?  The right to call in the government and punish people  every time you don't get your way.

hatred, contempt, same difference. the point is that her supposed "moral identity" apparently rests on the idea that homosexuality is a defect or whatever.

see bolded portion above.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Many of us are bullied by LGBT leftists. Just ask Baronelle Stutzman who had to shut down her business. Does "it get better" for her ?

she absolutely did not have to shut down her business. what are you even talking about?

She was given the choice of providing flowers to same-sex marriages

exactly.

Yes, that's right you always have a choice.  Your livelihood or your moral identity.  Why would anyone complain, they at least get one or the other?   They should just be grateful they aren't stripped of their capacity for free will altogether.

if your moral identity is founded on hatred of minorities, then it's not a moral identity worth protecting.

It's not a matter of hating minorities.  Maybe if you would listen to people's objections for a second before you tried to make them illegal you would understand that.

You know what's not worth protecting?  The right to call in the government and punish people  every time you don't get your way.

hatred, contempt, same difference. the point is that her supposed "moral identity" apparently rests on the idea that homosexuality is a defect or whatever.

see bolded portion above.

i've listened to plenty of anti-lgbt+ bloviation, thanks, and not once have i seen the slightest reason to believe that it's not about hate/contempt/etc.