Greek Referendum on IMF/Troika deal

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Summit may be cancelled if Greece comes up with an acceptable plan by deadline. Implication is that if no, Sunday would be talking Grexit.

By acceptable, you mean do what they've done for the last 4 years and have the usual downward spiral of austerity causing GDP contraction that requires more austerity?

[ag]

Summit may be cancelled if Greece comes up with an acceptable plan by deadline. Implication is that if no, Sunday would be talking Grexit.

By acceptable, you mean do what they've done for the last 4 years and have the usual downward spiral of austerity causing GDP contraction that requires more austerity?

Anyting, that would avoid the spontaneous drachma.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Summit may be cancelled if Greece comes up with an acceptable plan by deadline. Implication is that if no, Sunday would be talking Grexit.

By acceptable, you mean do what they've done for the last 4 years and have the usual downward spiral of austerity causing GDP contraction that requires more austerity?

Anyting, that would avoid the spontaneous drachma.

Tsipras had already submitted financially sound proposals during the early negotiation phase, and the creditors rejected them because they weren't neoliberal enough.

[jaichind]

Tsipras said in a speech to the European Parliament includes "I am confident that in the next two or three days we will be able to meet the obligations in the best interests of Greece and also the eurozone,"
and "Our proposals for financing our obligations and restructuring our debt will not burden European taxpayers."

I am not sure how both could be true at the same time.  Also no details on what this deal will look like.

[Middle-aged Europe]

BILD went off the deep end and turned fully nationalist now.



"No new billions for Greece - Today we need the Iron Chancellor"

[Antonio the Sixth]

BILD went off the deep end and turned fully nationalist now.



"No new billions for Greece - Today we need the Iron Chancellor"

Now? Bild has always been a chauvinist rag.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I assumed that the German Empire and its paraphernalia would be verboten in the mindset of Germans.

[jaichind]

Figaro poll show

62% of French Against Greek Debt Writedown
73% of Germans against Greek debt writedown
44% of the French trust German Chancellor Merkel to solve crisis between the EU and Greece; 24% trust French President Hollande
45% of the French and 60% of the Germans want Greece to exit the euro area

Le Parisien poll show
50% in French Poll Want Greece to Leave the Euro

DVJ Insights poll show
54% of Dutch said yes to Grexit

[RogueBeaver]

Athens has submitted the request for stability support to ESM.

[jaichind]

Athens has submitted the request for stability support to ESM.

Details are

1) Request for 3 year loan facility from the European Stability Mechanism
2) Greece proposed immediate implementation of measures, including tax, pension reforms as early as next week
3) Govt to detail its proposals for specific reform agenda on July 9 at latest

Sigh.  So after Greece said they will have details Wed it looks like it will be Thur before any real details.

[Tender Branson]

Figaro poll show

62% of French Against Greek Debt Writedown
73% of Germans against Greek debt writedown
44% of the French trust German Chancellor Merkel to solve crisis between the EU and Greece; 24% trust French President Hollande
45% of the French and 60% of the Germans want Greece to exit the euro area

Le Parisien poll show
50% in French Poll Want Greece to Leave the Euro

DVJ Insights poll show
54% of Dutch said yes to Grexit

Add Austria:

56% against further bailouts
38% in favour

41% support that Greece remains in the Eurozone
46% oppose it

http://derstandard.at/2000018576428/Mehrheit-der-Oesterreicher-gegen-Entgegenkommen

[RogueBeaver]

Politico analysis of Tsipras' EP speech.

[Bacon King]

I want to see Merkel et al go ahead and try to kick Greece out of the Eurozone... only for the European courts to overrule it for violating their treaties with Greece

[ag]

I want to see Merkel et al go ahead and try to kick Greece out of the Eurozone... only for the European courts to overrule it for violating their treaties with Greece

They do not have to do anything. It is enough to not provide emergency financing to Greek banks. This is absolutely legal: in fact, they have to violate pacts to not do that. Then, either Greece introduces the drachma voluntarily,  or it completely paralizes its own economy for an indefinite period. It is a choice: drachma, or your grandma starves.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Greece really needs some wily Dom Mintoff figure to dick around with all world powers for its own end.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

I want to see Merkel et al go ahead and try to kick Greece out of the Eurozone... only for the European courts to overrule it for violating their treaties with Greece

I would be careful to count the CJEU as opponents of either Grexit or austerity. Juncker, Tusk, and Merkel wouldn't throw around the threat of Grexit unless their legal advisers have a strong case for its legality. The court has already shown itself to be willing to accept questionable interpretations of the treaties if it is the pragmatic thing to do, and they are much more likely to be favorable to Merkel than to Tsipras .   

[jaichind]

Greece's main business and tourism associations have warned of an "explosion of unemployment" if the government fails to find a deal with creditors soon and reopen banks.

[Helsinkian]

The Telegraph is claiming that Tsipras called the referendum with the expectation and secret intention that the "Yes" side would win, and that he was shocked to see the "No" side emerge victorious:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11724924/Europe-is-blowing-itself-apart-over-Greece-and-nobody-can-stop-it.html

[Antonio the Sixth]

The Telegraph is claiming that Tsipras called the referendum with the expectation and secret intention that the "Yes" side would win, and that he was shocked to see the "No" side emerge victorious:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11724924/Europe-is-blowing-itself-apart-over-Greece-and-nobody-can-stop-it.html

I don't buy it. He was the main spokesman for the "no" camp, so if he wanted "yes" to win, all he had to do was deliberately run a bad campaign. Tsipras knows how to win elections, so he would know how to lose them.

Besides, I don't think the Telegraph has much credibility in general, and even less on a topic like this.

[Simfan34]

I want to see Merkel et al go ahead and try to kick Greece out of the Eurozone... only for the European courts to overrule it for violating their treaties with Greece

She should retaliate by haphazardly organizing a counter-referendum convolutedly asking the people of the Eurozone whether or not they want Greece to remain a member, ideally tying it to another bailout.

And Antonio, what about their masterful application of GAME THEORY?

[jaichind]

ECB leaves ELA funding to Greece unchanged.  So no new money.  Most likely tomorrow the 60 EUR per person will be dropped to a lower level.

[Torie]

This guy reads the riot act to Tsipras, starring him in the eye. Tsipras seemed rather entertained by it all. We need a Constitutional amendment right now to make Verhofstadt eligible to be POTUS. We need him far more than Belgium does.

[ag]

This guy reads the riot act to Tsipras, starring him in the eye. Tsipras seemed rather entertained by it all. We need a Constitutional amendment right now to make Verhofstadt eligible to be POTUS. We need him far more than Belgium does.

Stark!

[Bacon King]

Then, either Greece introduces the drachma voluntarily,  or it completely paralizes its own economy for an indefinite period. It is a choice: drachma, or your grandma starves.

Are you aware this sounds like it's a public policy prescription from Marlon Brando's character in the Godfather?

Honestly I'd be much more willing to agree with the non-Greek side in this debate if their rhetoric wasn't so consistently toxic

[Middle-aged Europe]

This guy reads the riot act to Tsipras, starring him in the eye. Tsipras seemed rather entertained by it all. We need a Constitutional amendment right now to make Verhofstadt eligible to be POTUS. We need him far more than Belgium does.

Stark!

America isn't going to elect a president who looks like Harry Potter.