Greek Referendum on IMF/Troika deal

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Wow: Tsipras and Merkel had reached a deadlock and said Grexit was the only option. Tusk said "sorry, but there is no way you are leaving this room." FT, via Guardian.

Better dealing with the devil you know than the one you don't, I guess.

[Hydera]

Sadly to our crimson friends this is the end of the austerity will "end" if we just say so! 
project.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

This will make a fascinating biopic in coming years.

[RogueBeaver]

Banks will be closed another 2 days. Eurogroup starting now.

[RogueBeaver]

Eurogroup may end early, since the technocrats will handle bridge financing. Tsipras meeting with his allies in Athens now. ND, POTAMI, PASOK on board for the packages.

[jaichind]

Syriza MP Nikolaos Chountis resigns

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Sadly to our crimson friends this is the end of the austerity will "end" if we just say so! 
project.

and you seem to operating under the assumption that austerity will end if Greece does 'reforms'.... assuming that they can.

[Helsinkian]

The Telegraph is claiming that Tsipras called the referendum with the expectation and secret intention that the "Yes" side would win, and that he was shocked to see the "No" side emerge victorious:

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11724924/Europe-is-blowing-itself-apart-over-Greece-and-nobody-can-stop-it.html

Maybe this isn't such a crackpot conspiracy theory after all? Varoufakis says that Tsipras seemed depressed on the night of the referendum victory:

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http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/greek-bailout-deal-a-new-versailles-treaty-yanis-varoufakis/6616532

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, at this point I could believe it. Doesn't make less sense than everything else.

[ag]

Yeah, at this point I could believe it. Doesn't make less sense than everything else.

The guy, might, actually, be smart enough to grow into his job. I, provisionally, start vaguely liking him.

[Tender Branson]

Hopefully something gets done now, because I don't want the same crappy situation again in 3 years when the 4th bailout package looms ... maybe they can take a look at Spain and Ireland where the GDP growth has returned to 3-4% this year. Greece needs some really tough and long-lasting reforms now that get the economy back on track.

[RogueBeaver]

FT saying that SYRIZA's radical left, or about a third of its caucus, will vote no and will not resign unless Tsipras asks them to.

[Sozialliberal]

Hopefully something gets done now, because I don't want the same crappy situation again in 3 years when the 4th bailout package looms ... maybe they can take a look at Spain and Ireland where the GDP growth has returned to 3-4% this year. Greece needs some really tough and long-lasting reforms now that get the economy back on track.

I agree.

Syriza are a good example of why I don't think much of socialists. They mean well, but they only make things worse in the end. I believe that To Potami's Stavros Theodorakis could have negotiated a better deal for the Greeks if he would have been Prime Minister.

I acknowledge that the troika/institutions have made mistakes, too. They demanded too severe cuts in public spending and neglected the stimulation of the Greek economy. Greece needs to diversify its economy beyond tourism and shipping. The hardest part may be the determined combatting of corruption, nepotism and tax evasion.

[Hydera]

FT saying that SYRIZA's radical left, or about a third of its caucus, will vote no and will not resign unless Tsipras asks them to.

I wonder if Syriza splits into Syriza-A and Syriza-B with Syriza-B being the anti-austerity defectors while warming up to a grexit. Would be more popular than Syriza-B and joining with KKE and unofficial unwanted support from GD to leave the euro.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Hopefully something gets done now, because I don't want the same crappy situation again in 3 years when the 4th bailout package looms ... maybe they can take a look at Spain and Ireland where the GDP growth has returned to 3-4% this year. Greece needs some really tough and long-lasting reforms now that get the economy back on track.

You have to be actively delusional if you think Ireland and Spain's recovery has to do with the 'deepness' of reforms imposed or the strength of the bailout proposals.

Ireland's actually had very little structural reforms, rather it has increased or put in place all kinds of taxes and rowed back some bits of spending... but very little has changed to the structure of the economy, which is why the housing market looks like it is overheating again.

[Yeahsayyeah]

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Looks like most of the Spanish "economic revocery" is because of a new real estate bubble, too.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

When people talk about 'necessary' or 'desirable reforms', can they please give a concrete example of what countries on the periphery should do to carry these out? Otherwise it just seems like arghblargh to justify callousness and ethnocentric smugness.

[jaichind]

Looks like one political winner from this will be ANEL.  They will capture a lot of the anti-austerity space.  KKE and XA are too sectarian to be able to take advantage of this.

[Хahar 🤔]

Looks like one political winner from this will be ANEL.  They will capture a lot of the anti-austerity space.  KKE and XA are too sectarian to be able to take advantage of this.

What? ANEL is dead.

[Antonio the Sixth]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/14/upshot/the-greek-deal-is-a-disaster-for-greece-and-maybe-for-europe.html

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/14/upshot/the-greek-deal-is-a-disaster-for-greece-and-maybe-for-europe.html

Agreed, they should have not told Greece exactly what to do. And I think making all their loans interest only for at least a couple of years would have been a good idea.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

...and I looked into the future, and saw only bloodless technocracy and 'competitiveness'. Utterly, utterly disheartening.

[ag]

...and I looked into the future, and saw only bloodless technocracy and 'competitiveness'. Utterly, utterly disheartening.

You would prefer non-competitiveness?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

...and I looked into the future, and saw only bloodless technocracy and 'competitiveness'. Utterly, utterly disheartening.

You would prefer non-competitiveness?

I would prefer the concept of 'competitiveness' not be treated as a be-all end-all or a panacea.

[ag]

...and I looked into the future, and saw only bloodless technocracy and 'competitiveness'. Utterly, utterly disheartening.

You would prefer non-competitiveness?

I would prefer the concept of 'competitiveness' not be treated as a be-all end-all or a panacea.

Well, I am certain even Angela Merkel fully agrees with you on that point The end is improving the satisfaction of the electorate. Competitiveness is only (one of many) necessary conditions for it