Will Obama be remembered in the top 10 of Presidents?

[Gass3268]

Yes. Top 10 worst presidents of all time

Presidential rankings done by historians have already put him between 15 and 18, so he's much closer to top 10 than the bottom 10. After this last week, top 10 is looking more likely.

[RR1997]

I think he will be remembered as the Democrat's Ronald Reagan. I think he'll be absolutely adored by leftists and will not be hated by everyone else (with the exception of some far-right wingers). I don't know about top 10, but I think he'll certainly be in the top 15. His biggest accomplishments that he will be remembered for are probably Obamacare, being the first African-American pres, killing Osama Bin Laden, and for making the American populace more liberal.

[CountryClassSF]

Under Obama we have the most polarized country ever, his approval ratings are nothing to write home about. He's the only President (to my knowledge) to win re-election by a smaller margin than his first election.

Under his presidency, Democrats have lost I think something like 800, maybe 900 seats at the state legislative level.  GOP Majority in the House is stronger than its been since World War II, 3 more seats and strongest since World War I.

Now, granted, much largely due to a true lack of an opposition party, Obama seems to win every policy battle. In THAT aspect, if that's what we were ranking by, he would be in the top 10.

[Mister Mets]

I doubt it.

First, he has some competition, especially with Presidents who dealt with consequential times.

The reputations of Jackson, Wilson and JFK have taken a hit in the last decade, so that may leave some openings, but not enough.

It's difficult for future historians to measure something that didn't happen (a second Great Depression) and Obamacare isn't that significant compared to the policy accomplishments of great Presidents. Drone strikes have been rather successful, so that's a plus, albeit a controverisal one. You can add to that various policy screw-ups (Rise of Isis, A more confident Russia, Using the power of the Justice Department handle sexual assault, etc.)

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Under Obama we have the most polarized country ever, his approval ratings are nothing to write home about.

To be fair, Harry Truman is good evidence that approval ratings don't determine how history remembers you.

[Ebsy]

tl;dr

Blue avatars post garbage equating their current unthinking and illogical hatred of uppity negro Barrack Obama to him not being a top 10 president, which he clearly is. Of course, they think Reagan is a top 10 president, so...

[Mehmentum]

Probably not.  He'll be above Clinton and both Bushes though.

[Lief 🗽]

Yes, obviously. A lot of right-wing hacks in this thread who will look even more ridiculous in a couple of years. Obamacare, seeing the country through the Great Recession, saving the American auto industry, killing bin Laden, ending two wars, gay marriage, TPP, and to top it all off zero major scandals.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Historians currently rank him at about 17. Which means the following presidents are better than Obama:

Monroe
Reagan
LBJ
Madison
Adams
Polk
JFK
Eisenhower
Truman
Wilson
Jefferson
Both Roosevelts
Washington
Lincoln

I'm comfortable saying that most of these guys are better.

Vomit.  Why isn't he in the bottom five?  
1. unnecessary foreign war
2. incompetent idealism on League of Nations
3. economic recession at end of 2nd term
4. very racist even by the standards of his time.

And don't give him credit for women's suffrage- he didn't even support it until after his reelection when it was basically inevitable.

Historians have a major hard on for Wilson. It's just one of those weird facts of life.

I assume that academics love Teddy Roosevelt for being the man they're too afraid to be, and love Wilson for being literally who they are. The first is a real life folk hero they can make action figures out of and play with, rendering their field of study the glitz of a piece of sensationalistic fiction. The second is basically the pinnacle of success in said field of study.

[Sumner 1868]

He will be remembered for his race. What that ultimately means we'll only know in the future.

[TDAS04]

He could be.  Top 20 at least, maybe top 10. 

[CountryClassSF]

Truman was a statesman. My biggest issue with Obama is he campaigned on a platform of bringing people together and has directed open hostility towards Republicans

[Mr. Smith]

Only if Bubba gets moved up there too, which he shouldn't.

Did Bubba not inherit "the greatest recession since the Great Depression"?

Did Bubba not take over for a Bush who went into Iraq unncessesarily and won on very very dubious pretenses [Florida or Willie Horton]?

Did Bubba not also have a lot of "scandals"?

Did Bubba not also half-a@! the quest for single-payer healthcare?

Did Bubba not also have a full Democratic Congress and squander it to appease an uncompromising GOP?


Oh wait, all those are true...and for all that Bubba isn't in the top 10, he's just the top 20. Therefore...

[Friend]

Yes. By both the historians and average people. In 15 years people will look back fondly of the Obama administration much like they currently do with the Clinton administration, except it will actually be justified.

[Likely Voter]

I think he gets into the top 15 but top 10 will probably rely on Obamacare's survival and effect over the next decade and also perhaps the Iran Deal.

[SWE]

lol mormdem

Did Bubba not inherit "the greatest recession since the Great Depression"?

He did not

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The first Iraq War was over before Clinton took office so I'm not sure how you'd take that into account when grading his presidency. And no, running a dishonest campaign does not qualify as 'dubious pretenses'

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Yes, that's one thing separating them, Obama's administration has been remarkably free of corruption

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Pretty sure Obama got a health care bill passed

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So?

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Therefore you are a terrible poster

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It's possible that Obama might barely crack the top 10 in one or two rankings, but I doubt he'll consistently make the top 10 in the future.  It looks like he'll solidly be in the second quartile of presidents for the foreseeable future.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

1. Carter
2. Coolidge
3. Lincoln
4. Obama

Pretty comfortably so considering the trash that has held the office. Might be worth bumping him to #3

If you want remembered as, then I guess toss FDR, Washington and TJ above him, but Obama has been objectively better. Id put Teddy ahead of that group as he is criminally underrated on here.

[socaldem]

I say yes and without much question.

Certainly he doesn't surmount the very top Presidents because our country is not having an existential crisis during which the leadership of Presidents Lincoln, FDR, and Roosevelt were critical.

That said, he has some critical items that recommend him:

1. CIVIL RIGHTS. Obama is unambiguously the BEST PRESIDENT in the history of the United States on Civil Rights. He has shown (most notably in his Mother Emmanuel eulogy) that he is not afraid to identify with, give voice to, and fight for black Americans--a community that has been oppressed, vilified, subjugated, and enslaved by so many of his Presidential predecessors. He has fought for gay marriage and equality and ended the military ban on homosexual servicemembers. Meanwhile, he is a vocal advocate for women and other minorities--whether they be Latino and other immigrants or religious minorities. (Note: Yes, there is a potential black mark as it relates to civil liberties--government surveillance, Guantanamo, etc., but I think that is a distinct category of issues). Bill Clinton, who is far better than most on this score, has a terrible record on gay rights and while winning strong support from African-Americans was all too willing to sacrifice the needs of minorities in compromises with Gingrich et al. Obama strongly opposes any policies that alienate, single out, or harm any group of Americans. He truly has sought to be a President for all. Given America's history, this is a BFD.

Sadly, even though he has taken a noble position on civil rights, the extant racism that he has sough to erase with his civil rights agenda has been his political Achilles heel. Just as much of the attacks on Clinton were centered around his "moral" lapses, owing to his embarrassing sexual escapades, much of the bile aimed at Obama has been through thinly veiled racist attacks. I think that these attacks and the predisposition of many in the white majority to distrust a black man have not only harmed his popularity but also affected his ability to govern. The anti-Obama hatred owing to his racial heritage is--and will be seen by history--as a pure tragedy. My hope, given Obama's recent political buoyancy, is that we are seeing Obama overcome this animus.

Obama's ability to power though and accomplish so much in the face of the bigoted political headwinds will be seen by the increasingly diverse Americans of the future as an accomplishment in and of itself. And his perseverance and calm governance will be a symbol of national unity and racial reconciliation.

2. FOREIGN POLICY. Obama has worked to clean up the foreign policy messes of Bush era, extricating the U.S. from Iraq and seeking to restore U.S. foreign policy standing. Most importantly, he has exercised caution with the use of U.S. military power, realizing that in delicate situations of world affairs we should often first do no harm.

One area where he has clearly made a big difference is reorienting our policies on Iran. If he manages to get a deal with Iran, this will be a huge deal, especially if, as I predict, Iran continues its path towards moderation and sheds its theocratic political system. Long term, I see Iran changing a la the change in China under Deng Xiaoping. If Iran becomes a moderate, respectable force for stability in the Middle East, the world will be a much better place. The only way to do that is with a deal.

3. OBAMACARE. Passing his healthcare law, which, while not perfect, has provided coverage to millions of Americans through the Medicaid expansion, moved the country towards universal healthcare and sought to clamp down on excessive healthcare costs is a huge deal.

4. THE ECONOMY. Guiding country through economic crisis of final Bush years and successfully turning around economy from great recession. He fought hard for a stimulus program, that was a lifeblood for the economy. An austerity policy, as advocated by his opponents, would have been disastrous. Moreover, Obama deserves credit for some aspects of his industrial policy. The auto bailout was unpopular but critical to saving a key industry, and, ultimately, a success. Obama's clean energy loans, also, have actually been quite successful (notwithstanding some exaggerated failures) and as the fledgling industry continues to grow and become more important, the early government funding  will be seen as a solid accomplishment.

5. FISCAL POLICY. This is where the GOP should love Obama. Notwithstanding the fact that he vastly expanded healthcare and built in a stimulus, overall the size of government has not increased during his Presidency. Under Bush, we went from a surplus to a huge deficit. Under Obama, the deficit has started to go down again (thanks, in part, to the expiration of Bush tax cut giveaways). Meanwhile, the size of government relative to GDP has not increased. Sure, divided government has helped but compared to Reagan, Bush II, Carter, and the socialist President of my dreams, Obama is very fiscally restrained.

6. CONSUMER PROTECTIONS. Obama has pushed through the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and a number of reforms to Wall Street. He has also worked to crack down on student loan abuse, etc. While he could go further, I think that these institutions and similar policies that he has fought so hard for could grow into something more important in the future and may pay dividends even as they are now.

7. APPOINTMENTS. Fantastic appointments to the Supreme Court (Kagan and Sotomayor) and the Fed (Yellen), who, I believe, will continue to serve their institutions well long after his Presidency. He has also filled the bench with diverse and sensible liberal Judges. :-)

8. ENVIRONMENT. I think that this is a major area where Obama's legacy is not complete and it seems he is working very hard on a number of executive orders and reforms that may very well help move the U.S. to reduce its carbon emissions. If these reforms start to have a measurable impact, this is a big deal. The climate crisis is real and in 20 or 50 years when we are in the throes of climate change, Obama may be seen as a President who didn't do enough on this issue--but I think that over the next few years he will show it is not for lack of trying. If his policies do end up paying dividends on the issue down the road, I think the future will be thankful that the climate crisis is slightly less bad thanks to his foresight. If he somehow manages to make a dent on this issue, this will be where he can really shine and move up the ranks to a truly great President. But, unfortunately, I don't think that he will be able to do enough to stop the climate deterioration.

[Brewer]

1. Carter
2. Coolidge
3. Lincoln
4. Obama

Pretty comfortably so considering the trash that has held the office. Might be worth bumping him to #3

If you want remembered as, then I guess toss FDR, Washington and TJ above him, but Obama has been objectively better. Id put Teddy ahead of that group as he is criminally underrated on here.

What in the hell?

[Antonio the Sixth]

I don't know if he will, but he should.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Nah, Top 20 maybe.

11-20 sounds about right. There's nothing great about Obama, but the fact that we've had a lot of Presidents who are pretty lousy, but still have terrible Presidents saving them from being bottom of the barrel helps him out.

[Leinad]

Top 15, I think. He's done a lot of things that he wanted to accomplish. Some of them I agree with, others I do not. Good for getting us out of Iraq, but then he took us to Libya, which is now even worse than it was before. I like how same-sex marriage is legal now, and we've normalized relations with Cuba, but I see Obama as much too statist and interventionist in general. Probably the best president since I started caring about politics (the competition is Dubya, so it's not saying that much).

I think he'll be like the Democratic version of Reagan. Loved by liberals and independents, reviled by conservatives.

I like that: liberals love Obama, hate Reagan; conservatives love Reagan, hate Obama; moderates love both, and libertarians hate both?

I'll take either over Wilson.

he is not speaking to Christians like myself what about Christians rights who get bullied and pushed around and harassed. etc. etc. i do not recognize this america anymore this america is a stranger to me.

Yes, Christians should be allowed freedom of conscience without government censorship, but gays should also be allowed freedom to marry. It's not a Christian nation, nor was it ever, it's a nation with freedom of religion, which means that people should have the freedom to ignore religion and, if it doesn't objectively harm anyone, live however they want.

See, freedom goes both ways. This was true in the days of Washington, the days of Obama, and the days of Wilson (who was crap).

tl;dr

Blue avatars post garbage equating their current unthinking and illogical hatred of uppity negro Barrack Obama to him not being a top 10 president, which he clearly is. Of course, they think Reagan is a top 10 president, so...

I think it's off-topic to bring racism into it. I'm sure most Republicans on this site hate him for reason more to do with his politics than he himself.

But yeah, you might be right with the rest of your post. Then again, it's hard to say that the red avatars praising him as the greatest ever aren't doing the reverse thing.

The only thing we should measure presidents on is objective success; anything else and we're basically ranking how they match our views. Getting us past crises, getting through major policy wins (whether we agree with them or not), and indicators such as re-election and approval ratings. Reagan, for example, had high approval ratings, won two landslides, and his vice-president got elected himself on Reagan's popularity, giving their party the White House for 3 straight terms for the first time since the Democrats did it with FDR and Truman. I can go for a while about why I personally have issues with both of them, but the facts don't lie: they're each clearly better than average, and certainly better than Wilson.

[pbrower2a]

No, his accomplishments are far too partisan and he didn't guide America through a crisis like the absolute top tier. In addition, almost all of his accomplishments are heavily dependent on how they look in 10-20 years, and he still stands the chance of being a bottom ten President is he ramrods through a deal with Iran that amounts to complete surrender.

Because the Great Recession never happened

The vast majority of Americans weren't personally affected by the great recession. It is to the Great Depression what Afghanistan/Iraq is to WW2.

By 2008 any American with any brains was scared of a repeat of the Great Depression, and for good reason:



A year and a half after the respective peaks of 2007 and 1929, the squiggly gray and blue lines look much alike. Dubya, like Coolidge, had pushed a capital-devouring speculative boom. I may not agree with Friedrich Hayek often, but I do on the cause of financial panics: it's the bubble that does the damage, and the panic is only the realization of the damage.

To be sure, it was the bank runs that turned a nasty recession into a full-blown Great Depression. But an FDR-Obama comparison is valid: FDR and Obama both saved American capitalism.    

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Long bull market without a speculative boom? I can't imagine better.  

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Even if one hates the President. But just think of what could happen if the economy continued to implode in 2009 and 2010. The world could be a much more dangerous place.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Can I just say, I really appreciate your posts Leinad. It's nice to have a right-libertarian that is neither insane nor inane.

Anyway, Obama's legacy! What will really cement him as a great (or alternatively come up and wipe him out) are these next eighteen months. It's going to be interesting time, especially because of the Reprobate controlled Congress.

Obviously some issues will fall by the wayside. Healthcare is thankfully finished for this term. Obamacare will need amending, but now is not the time. Gun control is also dead in the water judging by his resigned comments on the issue after Charleston. Education has always been a weirdo issue for Obama. He has a few initiatives like Race to the Top (or whatever) and Common Core, which all seem a bit fishy and standardised. Oh yeah, and free community college. Spoiler alert: won't happen under this congress, although I've read he's going to get up to some good old-fashioned executive order shenanigans to sort out college prices. Sadly, my pet issue of nuclear and general disarmament has fallen by the wayside due to Putin and Israel, ugh. I would be highly surprised if there is aNY further serious work done in the issue, especially with the latest nuke deal with Modi.

So what will cement him as a great? Well the two pending transoceanic trade deals for one! Whatver you may think of them, Obama has spent significant capital crafting these gigantic FTA's which make NAFTA look pretty pathetic.

Next: the climate. Everyone thought this issue was dead in the water after congress failed epically to pass cap and trade. However, it's been a consistent slow burner, as emissions standards fell into place and the long awaited renewable industry finally burst free (and remarkably quickly). Now Obama needs to solidify that impact in Paris with mandatory GHG cuts from everyone. If that requires bashing the heads of the Canadian, Saudi and Australian delegates together, then so be it. (I do hope Tony Abbott is humiliated badly ftr)

Foreign policy: this is where everything gets sticky. Obama, perhaps wisely, isn't doing anything too drastic about the present Libya/Yemen/Syria/Iraq quagmire, just nudging the sides and gently fondling his proxy States. That mess will probably be left for Mr or Mrs Next President. Likewise, all this gentle calculations could count for squat if Greece takes out the Eurozone with itself and drags us all down to doom. Basically Obama's main hope of cementing some form of impact is the detente with both Iran and Cuba. (The latter of course perhaps going better than the former). Oh yeah, and he'll probably continue encircling China for whatever reason. (which reminds me: a Cybersecurity bill needs to be passed)

Criminal justice: probably the best bipartisan thing Obama could do. An alliance between fiscal conservatives, libertarians and progressives could unwreack some of the damage forced on the justice system by 90's tinpot populism. Elimination of old mandatory laws and three strikes, release of non-violent prisoners, genuinely look at the Drug War. It's the best legislative thing I see him getting through (tax reform is dead while all the GOPhers are under that stupid pledge IMO; immigration will also be relied on via executive orders.

Beyond that all he needs to do is stay awesome and he'll be an easy top fiver.