Will Obama be remembered in the top 10 of Presidents?
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  Will Obama be remembered in the top 10 of Presidents?
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Question: Will Obama be remembered in the top 10 of Presidents?
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Yes
#2
No
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Author Topic: Will Obama be remembered in the top 10 of Presidents?  (Read 11966 times)
Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2015, 07:34:52 AM »

If flowery speeches will get you on the top 10 list, probably.
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The Free North
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« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2015, 07:38:48 AM »

No, his accomplishments are far too partisan and he didn't guide America through a crisis like the absolute top tier. In addition, almost all of his accomplishments are heavily dependent on how they look in 10-20 years, and he still stands the chance of being a bottom ten President is he ramrods through a deal with Iran that amounts to complete surrender.
Because the Great Recession never happened

The vast majority of Americans weren't personally affected by the great recession. It is to the Great Depression what Afghanistan/Iraq is to WW2.

By 2008 any American with any brains was scared of a repeat of the Great Depression, and for good reason:



A year and a half after the respective peaks of 2007 and 1929, the squiggly gray and blue lines look much alike. Dubya, like Coolidge, had pushed a capital-devouring speculative boom. I may not agree with Friedrich Hayek often, but I do on the cause of financial panics: it's the bubble that does the damage, and the panic is only the realization of the damage.

To be sure, it was the bank runs that turned a nasty recession into a full-blown Great Depression. But an FDR-Obama comparison is valid: FDR and Obama both saved American capitalism.    

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Long bull market without a speculative boom? I can't imagine better.  

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Even if one hates the President. But just think of what could happen if the economy continued to implode in 2009 and 2010. The world could be a much more dangerous place.


Oh please. Obama caused the bull market we've seen since '09? QE is solely responsible for the massive run-up in equity prices, not the president. Give me a break.
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dead0man
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« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2015, 09:43:13 AM »

WAY too soon to tell, anybody that tells you otherwise is just showing their bias.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2015, 10:36:12 AM »

I'm not sure about top 10. He'll easily be in the top half, though.
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okierepublican
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« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2015, 12:36:24 PM »

In my opinion he's in the George HW bush category of successful but not great. His legacy will probably be more of a "he opined doors" president then as a great president.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2015, 02:17:14 PM »

In my opinion he's in the George HW bush category of successful but not great. His legacy will probably be more of a "he opined doors" president then as a great president.

Bushie?    "opined"?
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okierepublican
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« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2015, 02:59:32 PM »

In my opinion he's in the George HW bush category of successful but not great. His legacy will probably be more of a "he opined doors" president then as a great president.

Bushie?    "opined"?

Open, sorry bad grammar. I meant he would be remembered as good but not in the top 2 tiers. When they rank them 1-43 he will be in the teens.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2015, 04:06:21 PM »

In my opinion he's in the George HW bush category of successful but not great. His legacy will probably be more of a "he (opened) doors" president then as a great president.

Sure, he opened doors -- doors to the assets of America to the worst speculators of the time. He let America dedicates its energies of economic activity to a speculative boom based upon predatory lending. The Bush economic model depended upon hucksters getting rich by hurting their customers.

That is horrible business; such invariably implodes when people lose faith in it.

Dubya will undoubtedly be seen as one of the ten worst Presidents for a very long time. 
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Leinad
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« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2015, 09:24:22 PM »

Can I just say, I really appreciate your posts Leinad. It's nice to have a right-libertarian that is neither insane nor inane.

Thanks! I think that most people are probably more insane/inane on the internet, but I'm actually the other way around.

Criminal justice: probably the best bipartisan thing Obama could do. An alliance between fiscal conservatives, libertarians and progressives could unwreack some of the damage forced on the justice system by 90's tinpot populism. Elimination of old mandatory laws and three strikes, release of non-violent prisoners, genuinely look at the Drug War.

If Obama does this, he's easily top 10 in my book. Especially if you add abolition of the death penalty.

In my opinion he's in the George HW bush category of successful but not great. His legacy will probably be more of a "he opined doors" president then as a great president.

Bushie?    "opined"?

Open, sorry bad grammar. I meant he would be remembered as good but not in the top 2 tiers. When they rank them 1-43 he will be in the teens.

You're grammar was pretty good, but your spelling was shaky. "Opined" is a different word, "opened" is what you're looking for. No worries, spelling mistakes happen to everyone, especially when you accidently spelled a different word, so spell-check doesn't catch it.

I put Obama decisively ahead of GHWB, but that might just be because I loathe the Bush Dynasty.

In my opinion he's in the George HW bush category of successful but not great. His legacy will probably be more of a "he (opened) doors" president then as a great president.

Sure, he opened doors -- doors to the assets of America to the worst speculators of the time. He let America dedicates its energies of economic activity to a speculative boom based upon predatory lending. The Bush economic model depended upon hucksters getting rich by hurting their customers.

That is horrible business; such invariably implodes when people lose faith in it.

Dubya will undoubtedly be seen as one of the ten worst Presidents for a very long time. 

He wasn't talking about Dubya (who I agree is pretty clearly among the 10 worst), he was talking about George Herbert Walker Bush, former CIA director, Reagan's veep, and President from 1989-1993, after upsetting Ron Paul's Libertarian ticket in the 1988 election.

WAY too soon to tell, anybody that tells you otherwise is just showing their bias.

I agree, although we can look at objective standards to guess his ranking. It's hard to separate opinions on politicians from opinions on political issues, but even if you do that it's still a subjective list.

Harry Truman had terrible approval rankings when he left office, but now he's considered top 20 if not top 10. And John Tyler was widely considered top 10 when he left office, but now he's not even top 20.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2015, 09:55:40 PM »

John Tyler was widely considered top 10 when he left office

Well, when he left office he was by definition in the top 10, so that doesn't tell us much.
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Leinad
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« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2015, 03:42:45 AM »

John Tyler was widely considered top 10 when he left office

Well, when he left office he was by definition in the top 10, so that doesn't tell us much.

And that's the intentional joke.

Maybe it did undercut the point a bit. To reiterate that point: it's hard to say without doubt if a president is good or not (even if you look past ideology--which is near impossible in itself), but it's even harder without the full context of history.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #61 on: June 30, 2015, 12:15:58 PM »

Lolz at this red av circlejerk thread. Good to know giving pretty speeches and being not-Booosh! is grounds for "Top Ten Presidents".

Washington
Jefferson
Madison
Monroe
Q. Adams
Jackson
Polk
Lincoln
Cleveland
McKinley
T. Roosevelt
Wilson
F. Roosevelt
Truman
Eisenhower
Kennedy
L. Johnson
Nixon
Reagan

All more memorable. All more successful. I don't even like a lot of these Presidents but each has still done more to warrant "Top Ten" status than Obama.
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« Reply #62 on: June 30, 2015, 01:05:51 PM »

I was going to seriously argue why I dislike enough of your "candidates"  (like the medicore tool Wilson, the inept disaster of LBJ and the guy who got the country in the unwinnable War of 2012) to rate them higher than Barry. But then I realised you had Nixon (!!!!!) on your list and realised you are insane.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #63 on: June 30, 2015, 03:07:17 PM »

I was going to seriously argue why I dislike enough of your "candidates"  (like the medicore tool Wilson, the inept disaster of LBJ and the guy who got the country in the unwinnable War of 2012) to rate them higher than Barry. But then I realised you had Nixon (!!!!!) on your list and realised you are insane.

Again, its not like I like any of those Presidents but their lists of accomplishments are much more impressive than a mediocre health bill that hurt just as many people as it helped.

Nixon = China. Detente. Draw-down in Vietnam. Moon Landing.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #64 on: June 30, 2015, 09:16:57 PM »

Top ten? No. Top twenty? Most likely. I could go into detail if anyone cares, but Leinad has done a much better job at articulating what I basically feel about Obama.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2015, 09:28:10 PM »


What!? I'm a JQA fanboy as much as the next guy (assuming that guy is Cathcon), but I can't name anything he actually *did* as President.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2015, 12:15:42 AM »

I love Christian persecution complex. Their right to discriminate (or using their code words "conscience") is liberty, but those views being pilloried in a liberal secular democracy is intolerable discrimination...
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publicunofficial
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« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2015, 03:01:46 AM »

If you are a die-hard liberal, Obama should honestly be in your Top 6 at least.
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Horsemask
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« Reply #68 on: July 01, 2015, 06:29:33 PM »

I don't think he will rank top 10. It is hard to say without some time passing first.
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Badger
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« Reply #69 on: July 01, 2015, 11:12:11 PM »

If one considers gay marriage a noteworthy success, how much credit does Obama really deserve? He appointed Sotomeyor, but any Democrat would've appointed a 5th vote justice. It's like giving Ike credit for the Brown school desegregation decision.
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bballrox4717
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« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2015, 08:33:17 AM »

If one considers gay marriage a noteworthy success, how much credit does Obama really deserve? He appointed Sotomeyor, but any Democrat would've appointed a 5th vote justice. It's like giving Ike credit for the Brown school desegregation decision.

Obama had a big impact on public acceptance of gay marriage. Sure, approval was already moving in its favor, but he was instrumental in ending DADT, and his presidential victory after his endorsement of gay marriage opened the floodgates for elected officials to support it. I also suspect that the entire tone of the court case would have been different if an administration had decided to keep continue defending DOMA. Who knows if Obergefell vs Hodges would have even reached the Supreme Court?

It's not as sexy as signing legislation, but Obama had a huge impact on the cultural shift in the nation that allowed gay marriage to be legal nationwide.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2015, 08:39:39 AM »

If one considers gay marriage a noteworthy success, how much credit does Obama really deserve? He appointed Sotomeyor, but any Democrat would've appointed a 5th vote justice. It's like giving Ike credit for the Brown school desegregation decision.

I give him credit for endorsing same-sex marriage in 2012 and helping swing the results in the 4 referenda that fall, which no doubt helped ease the court toward approval.
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Clarko95 📚💰📈
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« Reply #72 on: July 02, 2015, 08:47:50 AM »

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Comrade Funk
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« Reply #73 on: July 02, 2015, 10:51:21 AM »

If you are a die-hard liberal, Obama should honestly be in your Top 6 at least.
Um no. He hasn't earned it. The economy is still mediocre and the world isn't much better than in 2009.
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Blue3
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« Reply #74 on: July 02, 2015, 12:25:18 PM »

If you are a die-hard liberal, Obama should honestly be in your Top 6 at least.
Um no. He hasn't earned it. The economy is still mediocre and the world isn't much better than in 2009.
There have been a lot of policy changes.

Which 6 presidents have been more progressive than Obama, then?
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