Will Obama be remembered in the top 10 of Presidents?

[Comrade Funk]

If you are a die-hard liberal, Obama should honestly be in your Top 6 at least.

Um no. He hasn't earned it. The economy is still mediocre and the world isn't much better than in 2009.

There have been a lot of policy changes.

Which 6 presidents have been more progressive than Obama, then?

Doesn't matter if he's been "progressive". Presidents are determined by ideology, but by performance. He's mediocre/middle of the pack imo.

[publicunofficial]

If you are a die-hard liberal, Obama should honestly be in your Top 6 at least.

Um no. He hasn't earned it. The economy is still mediocre and the world isn't much better than in 2009.

There have been a lot of policy changes.

Which 6 presidents have been more progressive than Obama, then?

Doesn't matter if he's been "progressive". Presidents are determined by ideology, but by performance. He's mediocre/middle of the pack imo.

That's not what I was arguing. I ment what Blue3 said, in terms of pure "gave liberals what they want", Obama is easily Top 5 or 6. I think most liberals haven't realized that though, and won't until 2017 when we likely have a more conservative person as President. That's when you're really going to see Obama's praises being sung, back to Campaign '08 levels.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I think it depends on how the next 10-15 years go. If the US faces major difficulties that are directly traceable back to his terms, he will likely end up in the bottom quartile. I think Shrub is headed to the same place.

Right now, over a year before his term is done, there's the potential for a major terror attack, a war, or an economic crash. Any of those will be attached to his legacy.

[Badger]

If one considers gay marriage a noteworthy success, how much credit does Obama really deserve? He appointed Sotomeyor, but any Democrat would've appointed a 5th vote justice. It's like giving Ike credit for the Brown school desegregation decision.

Edit: And he appointed Kagen too.

[Antonio the Sixth]

If one considers gay marriage a noteworthy success, how much credit does Obama really deserve? He appointed Sotomeyor, but any Democrat would've appointed a 5th vote justice. It's like giving Ike credit for the Brown school desegregation decision.

Edit: And he appointed Kagen too.

That's a good point. I'm honestly not sure Stevens would have went along with such a ruling. He was, after all, a major advocate for judicial restraint.

[Mercenary]

Not top 10, more middle of the road, so as another poster said perhaps top 20.

[pbrower2a]

I think it depends on how the next 10-15 years go. If the US faces major difficulties that are directly traceable back to his terms, he will likely end up in the bottom quartile. I think Shrub is headed to the same place.

Dubya may still have respect from right-wingers mostly because he isn't Barack Obama... but I see plenty of contempt from just about everyone else. Dubya is very low among Presidents. He was competent at riding cultural trends, but that has at most evanescent or illusory benefits.

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Even one of his harshest critics, Karl Rove, calls him "cautious". He has had one of the cleanest administrations in recent years.

Does the long bull market seem doomed? It seems to have a broader and sounder foundation than the real estate bubble of Dubya.  

[Cryptic]

I honestly believe he will be. Most of the top Presidents were very divisive in their day, but once they leave office the vitriol dies down tremendously. Obama has impressive accomplishments that eluded other Presidents such as healthcare and gay rights. Also, his historic position as the first African-American to assume the office ensures he will be one of the few Presidents everyone remembers the name of 50 years from now.

[Antonio the Sixth]

If one considers gay marriage a noteworthy success, how much credit does Obama really deserve? He appointed Sotomeyor, but any Democrat would've appointed a 5th vote justice. It's like giving Ike credit for the Brown school desegregation decision.

Edit: And he appointed Kagen too.

That's a good point. I'm honestly not sure Stevens would have went along with such a ruling. He was, after all, a major advocate for judicial restraint.

"Individual decisions by married persons, concerning the intimacies of their physical relationship, even when not intended to produce offspring, are a form of ‘liberty’ protected by the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment" - John Paul Stevens, Bowers v. Hardwick (dissenting). That's the basic message of Kennedy's opinion, no?

That decision regarded the Texas ban on sodomy, if I'm not mistaken. It's one thing to say that the government has no right to regulate what two consenting adults do in their bedroom, but it's another to say that the government must provide legal recognition to a category of relationships.

Anyway, I don't claim to know how Stevens would have ruled. I'm genuinely wondering.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

If one considers gay marriage a noteworthy success, how much credit does Obama really deserve? He appointed Sotomeyor, but any Democrat would've appointed a 5th vote justice. It's like giving Ike credit for the Brown school desegregation decision.

Edit: And he appointed Kagen too.

That's a good point. I'm honestly not sure Stevens would have went along with such a ruling. He was, after all, a major advocate for judicial restraint.

"Individual decisions by married persons, concerning the intimacies of their physical relationship, even when not intended to produce offspring, are a form of ‘liberty’ protected by the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment" - John Paul Stevens, Bowers v. Hardwick (dissenting). That's the basic message of Kennedy's opinion, no?

That decision regarded the Texas ban on sodomy, if I'm not mistaken. It's one thing to say that the government has no right to regulate what two consenting adults do in their bedroom, but it's another to say that the government must provide legal recognition to a category of relationships.

Anyway, I don't claim to know how Stevens would have ruled. I'm genuinely wondering.

He was interviewed by NPR and said that the rapid change in public opinion might lead people to "accept the merits of some of my arguments," which to me certainly indicates he'd have ruled in favor.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/04/24/306524864/retired-justice-john-paul-stevens-marijuana-should-be-legal

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

No, he will be remembered in like most presidents since Nixon. Presidents who had to govern under divided govt

He had 2 yr control of Congress and didnt pass any meaningful transformative legislation.  He should of passed tax reform or social security reform.

He was better than Dubya. But, there wasnt 911 or Katrina eitger. Capture of Bin Laden lasted as much as it did under Dubya, when he defeated Saddam, got him reelected.

[Leinad]

I was going to seriously argue why I dislike enough of your "candidates"  (like the medicore tool Wilson, the inept disaster of LBJ and the guy who got the country in the unwinnable War of 2012) to rate them higher than Barry. But then I realised you had Nixon (!!!!!) on your list and realised you are insane.

I like to call Nixon both a top-5 and bottom-5 president. His list of positive accomplishments, ignoring the major negatives, puts him very high on the list.

Of course, we actually look at the negatives, so Nixon is crap. But calling him a good president, while crazy, isn't that crazy.

I love Christian persecution complex. Their right to discriminate (or using their code words "conscience") is liberty, but those views being pilloried in a liberal secular democracy is intolerable discrimination...

I dislike discrimination, I really do. And I'm in favor of gay marriage. But I oppose letting the government (or anyone else, for that matter) force people to do things against their will. The government should only punish people for crimes that objectively hurt others. I don't think this qualifies. And this isn't conservatism: I'd legalize drugs, gambling, prostitution, polygamy, and whatever else makes me have a yellow avatar instead of a blue one, in addition to my mostly non-interventionist foreign policy.

I think that a society where people are free to do whatever they want, including oppose things they personally don't like, and marry people they do (with consent, of course), is best. This is unfortunate because everyone links the two issues as the same, and is either pro-freedom-of-marriage and anti-freedom-of-conscience or vice-versa.

Really, the thing I'm getting the most annoyed by is conservatives who think America's gone down the tubes due to gay marriage because of "liberty." No, gay marriage restricts religious liberty as much as what I eat for lunch does. What restricts religious liberty is statist anti-discrimination policies (again, not saying that the discrimination is right, just saying that the government shouldn't have a role in it).

Also, this isn't about my right to do something, this is about people's rights in general. I think people have the right to express any opinion and make decisions as a result of that, as long as they don't objectively harm others. And I'm not against people criticizing Christians who believe this, I'm just against the government fining people unless they comply. That's really all it comes down to.

They're two different issues, both rooted in whether we think the individual should be free to live how they want or the government should correct societal wrongs such as discrimination or "immorality." If you disagree with me on one or both of these issues, that's fine! It's your right to do so. But to link it to anything else isn't accurate.

Not saying that you addressed me specifically (you didn't) or presuming that I was the intended target, just clearing that up.

[Antonio the Sixth]

If one considers gay marriage a noteworthy success, how much credit does Obama really deserve? He appointed Sotomeyor, but any Democrat would've appointed a 5th vote justice. It's like giving Ike credit for the Brown school desegregation decision.

Edit: And he appointed Kagen too.

That's a good point. I'm honestly not sure Stevens would have went along with such a ruling. He was, after all, a major advocate for judicial restraint.

"Individual decisions by married persons, concerning the intimacies of their physical relationship, even when not intended to produce offspring, are a form of ‘liberty’ protected by the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment" - John Paul Stevens, Bowers v. Hardwick (dissenting). That's the basic message of Kennedy's opinion, no?

That decision regarded the Texas ban on sodomy, if I'm not mistaken. It's one thing to say that the government has no right to regulate what two consenting adults do in their bedroom, but it's another to say that the government must provide legal recognition to a category of relationships.

Anyway, I don't claim to know how Stevens would have ruled. I'm genuinely wondering.

He was interviewed by NPR and said that the rapid change in public opinion might lead people to "accept the merits of some of my arguments," which to me certainly indicates he'd have ruled in favor.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/04/24/306524864/retired-justice-john-paul-stevens-marijuana-should-be-legal

Fair enough.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

If you are anti-war, anti-fed, or anti-wall street progressive, Obama should be in your top 15 for worst presidents ever imo

Great point. If you are anti-Fed or refuse to acknowledge that Wall Street is the source of American prosperity, you should not be allowed to engage in the political process.

[pbrower2a]

I honestly believe he will be. Most of the top Presidents were very divisive in their day, but once they leave office the vitriol dies down tremendously. Obama has impressive accomplishments that eluded other Presidents such as healthcare and gay rights. Also, his historic position as the first African-American to assume the office ensures he will be one of the few Presidents everyone remembers the name of 50 years from now.

You have a point. The standards are higher now than they used to be, and the presence of  hostile media with a programmatic opposition to everything that the President does is not his fault. Within two years of the end of the Obama Administration the successor Democrat as President will not be getting the bulk of the cat-calls from Right-wing media. A Republican successor? When the economy collapses or a War for Profit that that Republican President starts begins to go bad, people not on the Hard Right are going to wax nostalgic about Barack Obama.

No scandals. No pointless wars started. Lots of terrorists whacked. Long bull market without a speculative boom. Obamacare getting respect.



 

[Oakvale]

Obama's (very important) leadership on gay marriage is likely the single biggest factor in changing the opinions of African-American communities on what was historically a pretty divisive topic.

[smoltchanov]

Not top 10, more middle of the road, so as another poster said perhaps top 20.

+1

[m4567]

His presidency is certainly very historic.