Rank the GOP candidates from least conservative to most conservative
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#TheShadowyAbyss
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« on: June 30, 2015, 01:55:52 PM »

How would you rank the 2016 GOP candidates from least conservative to most conservative??
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EliteLX
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2015, 01:58:29 PM »

From a general prospect.

Cruz, Rand, Perry and such show as most conservative.

Your flopping RINOs are least conservative are Trump (the dude was a damn Democrat from 2001-2009??!), Christie, Pataki, .etc.
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okierepublican
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 02:38:29 PM »

Cruz, jindal, and perry are probably the most. Maybe it's something in Texas? Then Paul, Carson, juckabee, Santorum, Walker, seem next. Fiorina I dont really know much about her positions. Then Rubio
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Abraham Reagan
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 03:32:46 PM »

I don't think you can rank the conservatism of the candidates in a simple list. You have to separate it based on Domestic and Foreign policy issues. Someone like Rand Paul would be very conservative on the Domestic side, but very liberal on the foreign policy side. So I don't think you can really rank them in the way that you want.

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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2015, 04:28:49 PM »
« Edited: June 30, 2015, 04:31:58 PM by CrabCake »

Pataki - pro-choice, running token "I think the base are retarded" Huntsman campaign

Graham - proud RINO

Christie - ran New Jersey. Hugged Obama after Sandy thus ensuring Barry's reelection (?)

Kasich - accepted Medicaid expansion, relatively dovish, supports free trade

Bush - married to Hispanic, very suspicious

Fiorina - the BUSINESS EXPERIENCE candidate, suspiciously RINOish set of chromosomes

Santorum - statist and worker focused economic policy, although very hawkish

Perry - will abolish three departments, maybe. Very Heretical on immigration

Rubio - immigration related heresy, straddling a lot of factions

Huckabee - social conservative, but marketed at elderly; opposes reform of SS and Medicare.

Walker - ferociously economically conservative, although opposes SS privatisation; hawkish; supports Obamatrade

Jindal - governor who has thrown the most red meat. Nobody has bitten.

Paul - idiosyncratic civil rights issues, vague paleocon leanings, orthodox-right economically

Cruz - hyper right-wing, hawkish, has neocon roots

Carson - hyper right-wing, opposes free trade, paleocon roots

Trump belongs somewhere on the z axis.
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2015, 10:37:10 PM »

Pataki - Pro-choice, otherwise generic conservative but not fire breathing

Graham - Generic conservative with focus on bombing foreign countries

Christie - Generic conservative but friendly with Democrats on a personal level

Kasich - Generic conservative but doesn't hate poor people, which is why he accepted Medicaid expansion

Bush - Generic conservative but openly in favor of immigration 

Fiorina - Generic conservative, being a woman makes her appear moderate

Santorum - Very socially conservative but doesn't hate poor people, although not enough to accept Obamacare

Perry - Generic conservative and also stupid

Rubio - Generic conservative but openly in favor of immigration

Huckabee - Socially conservative but doesn't hate poor people, although not enough to accept Obamacare

Walker - Ultimate generic conservative

Jindal - Generic conservative, also believes in demons

Paul - More generically conservative than most people think, exceptions being foreign policy and civil liberties

Cruz - Very conservative

Carson - Outwardly very conservative but also kind of an idiot and likely to make gaffes that don't line up with intended positioning

Trump - Outwardly extremely conservative and insane and stupid
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SATW
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 10:46:00 PM »
« Edited: June 30, 2015, 10:49:06 PM by SunriseAroundTheWorld »

1. Cruz
2. Jindal
3. Perry
4. Rubio
5. Walker

6. Carson
7. Paul
8. Bush
9. Kasich

10. Santorum
11. Graham
12. Fiorina

13. Christie
14. Huckabee
15. Trump

16. Pataki


Blue = Candidates I like
Red = Candidates I dislike
Teal = Candidates I am conflicted on
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2015, 07:21:02 AM »

Pataki - pro-choice, running token "I think the base are retarded" Huntsman campaign

Graham - proud RINO

Christie - ran New Jersey. Hugged Obama after Sandy thus ensuring Barry's reelection (?)

Kasich - accepted Medicaid expansion, relatively dovish, supports free trade

Bush - married to Hispanic, very suspicious

Fiorina - the BUSINESS EXPERIENCE candidate, suspiciously RINOish set of chromosomes

Santorum - statist and worker focused economic policy, although very hawkish

Perry - will abolish three departments, maybe. Very Heretical on immigration

Rubio - immigration related heresy, straddling a lot of factions

Huckabee - social conservative, but marketed at elderly; opposes reform of SS and Medicare.

Walker - ferociously economically conservative, although opposes SS privatisation; hawkish; supports Obamatrade

Jindal - governor who has thrown the most red meat. Nobody has bitten.

Paul - idiosyncratic civil rights issues, vague paleocon leanings, orthodox-right economically

Cruz - hyper right-wing, hawkish, has neocon roots

Carson - hyper right-wing, opposes free trade, paleocon roots

Trump belongs somewhere on the z axis.

How is supporting free trade not conservative?  Its opposition comes largely from unions and Democrats.
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2015, 08:08:01 AM »

Free trade is supported by the corporatist centre of both parties and opposed by the more extreme wings of both parties.
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Torie
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« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2015, 08:37:26 AM »
« Edited: July 01, 2015, 08:49:34 AM by Torie »

I think a listing order does not make much sense, particularly since there is a variation, depending upon whether it is social policy or economic policy or foreign policy. This is the best that I can do that is at all useful to me, and even this is really rather crude and somewhat inaccurate generalizations, with the order within a category having no significance.

Interestingly, the candidate with whom I agree the least I suspect is Huckabee, with whom I agree on almost nothing really.

If one divided by smarts, or by adequate experience to be POTUS, or by better or worse judgment and temperament to be POTUS (with judgement and temperament to me, along with experience, often, perhaps even typically, being more important than ideology), the groupings would be somewhat different.

Less conservative
Pataki
Rubio
Bush
Kasich
Graham
Fiorina
Christie

More conservative
Santorum (protectionist tendencies)
Walker
Carson
Cruz
Jindal
Perry
Huckabee (protectionist tendencies)

Libertarian
Paul

Opportunist with no real ideology
Trump
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« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2015, 08:54:16 AM »

Pataki - pro-choice, running token "I think the base are retarded" Huntsman campaign

Graham - proud RINO

Christie - ran New Jersey. Hugged Obama after Sandy thus ensuring Barry's reelection (?)

Kasich - accepted Medicaid expansion, relatively dovish, supports free trade

Bush - married to Hispanic, very suspicious

Fiorina - the BUSINESS EXPERIENCE candidate, suspiciously RINOish set of chromosomes

Santorum - statist and worker focused economic policy, although very hawkish

Perry - will abolish three departments, maybe. Very Heretical on immigration

Rubio - immigration related heresy, straddling a lot of factions

Huckabee - social conservative, but marketed at elderly; opposes reform of SS and Medicare.

Walker - ferociously economically conservative, although opposes SS privatisation; hawkish; supports Obamatrade

Jindal - governor who has thrown the most red meat. Nobody has bitten.

Paul - idiosyncratic civil rights issues, vague paleocon leanings, orthodox-right economically

Cruz - hyper right-wing, hawkish, has neocon roots

Carson - hyper right-wing, opposes free trade, paleocon roots

Trump belongs somewhere on the z axis.

How is supporting free trade not conservative?  Its opposition comes largely from unions and Democrats.

One can oppose free trade for both conservative and lefty reasons. Carson opposes it with a rightist and nationalistic motivation; while Sanders and his ilk oppose it for leftist, worker based reasons (sometimes, with political expediency the rhetoric starts to resemble each other, with leftists pulling the Scary Yellow Peril line and rightists crying crocodile tears about workers.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2015, 09:49:24 AM »

I mean, when we get down to it, conservative and liberal mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.  Despite the fact that abolitionism was largely fueled by Great Awakening inspired evangelism and most of its most ardent supporters hailed from some of the most conservative religious denominations (such as the Quakers), many describe opposing slavery as the "progressive" or "liberal" stance for its time - likely behind the thinking that challenging the existing and "traditional" establishment establishment of slavery was, in effect, challenging societal conservatism.

Disclaimer: I'm pro-choice, but this is an interesting hypothetical to help out my point.  I doubt this will happen, but imagine a future 150 years from now where people look back with horror at the fact that we ever allowed legal abortions.  Let's say society evolves to view abortion much like slavery - a moral evil that they simply can't fathom that we allowed, viewing the fetus much like the helpless slave of the 1800s.  Will they look back at current social conservatives as "progressive for their time," being "ahead" on that issue?  You see the issue with how relative these terms are.  Unfortunately, each person must use his or her own definition, and while I usually (to maintain historical consistency) identify "conservatism" with pro-business policies that benefit the economically independent/advantaged and "liberal" with pro-worker policies that look to mold society to lend a helping hand to the economically advantaged, I'll use a much simpler definition for this exercise:

Conservative rating is based on percentage of issues that the candidate is loyal to Republican Party doctrine, with a "less conservative" boost given to those who I view as being more pragmatic, under the thinking that they might govern more moderately because of those tendencies.

MOST CONSERVATIVE TO MOST LIBERAL
Carson
Jindal
Cruz
Walker
Fiorina
Rubio
Perry
Trump
Santorum
Huckabee
Graham
Christie
Bush
Kasich
Pataki
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shua
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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2015, 10:14:15 AM »

Why would Carson be the most conservative?
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2015, 10:26:33 AM »

I think this is a rather silly, but I'll attempt it anyway. Its still in order, but I separated it into categories.

"Very Conservative"

Cruz
Paul (still carrying a paleocon tradition)
Jindal
Carson (sort of clueless on many things, but attracts the most conservative people)

"Pretty Conservative"

Perry
Walker
Fiorina (didn't really know, so I put her here)
Rubio

"Moderates"

Santorum (for his economic protectionism)
Huckabee (see Santorum)
Bush
Kasich

"RINO's"

Christie
Graham
Pataki
Trump (yes, that's right)
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2015, 08:09:19 PM »

I'm trying to rate this as a combination of the standard social + economic issues scales. I'm ignoring foreign policy here as well (since I don't know what a 'conservative' foreign policy is). This is not a measure of pragmatism or competence; there are competent and incompetent politicians all over the spectrum.

From least conservative to most:
Pataki
Fiorina
Paul
Trump
Christie
Graham
Kasich
Bush
Huckabee
Perry
Rubio
Santorum
Carson
Walker
Jindal
Cruz
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100% pro-life no matter what
ExtremeRepublican
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« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2015, 09:09:17 PM »

Trump and Paul operate in their own worlds (for different reasons), but I will rank the other 14:

14. George Pataki (pro-abortion RINO)
13. Chris Christie
12. Lindsey Graham
11. John Kasich
10. Jeb Bush
9. Mike Huckabee
8. Carly Fiorina
7. Marco Rubio
6. Rick Santorum
5. Scott Walker
4. Rick Perry
3. Bobby Jindal
2. Ben Carson
1. Ted Cruz
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CountryClassSF
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« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2015, 09:10:26 PM »

Trump and Paul operate in their own worlds (for different reasons), but I will rank the other 14:

14. George Pataki (pro-abortion RINO)
13. Chris Christie
12. Lindsey Graham
11. John Kasich
10. Jeb Bush
9. Mike Huckabee
8. Carly Fiorina
7. Marco Rubio
6. Rick Santorum
5. Scott Walker
4. Rick Perry
3. Bobby Jindal
2. Ben Carson
1. Ted Cruz

I would agree with this.
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Mr. Illini
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« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2015, 10:16:49 PM »

Pataki



Bush
Kasich
Fiorina


Trump
Christie
Graham


Rubio
Walker
Carson


Paul
Huckabee
Perry
Jindal




Santorum
Cruz
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2015, 12:59:28 AM »

I think this is a rather silly, but I'll attempt it anyway. Its still in order, but I separated it into categories.

"Very Conservative"

Cruz
Paul (still carrying a paleocon tradition)
Jindal
Carson (sort of clueless on many things, but attracts the most conservative people)

"Pretty Conservative"

Perry
Walker
Fiorina (didn't really know, so I put her here)
Rubio

"Moderates"

Santorum (for his economic protectionism)
Huckabee (see Santorum)
Bush
Kasich

"RINO's"

Christie
Graham
Pataki
Trump (yes, that's right)
How is Paul by any stretch a Paleocon?

The Pauls are definitely more libertarian than most Paleocons, and they're by no means culture warriors like Pat Buchanan, but they are socially conservative, against open borders, and skeptical of foreign policy intervention, and highly critical of neoconservatives, like most.
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2015, 07:11:13 AM »

Most conservative are probably Kasich or Bush. The likes of Cruz and Santorum are reactionaries, Paul is a Whig and Graham is a neocon.
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bballrox4717
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« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2015, 09:58:43 AM »

Moderates

1. Pataki
2. Graham

Establishment Conservatives

3. Kasich
4. Christie
5. Bush
6. Fiorina

Establishment Conservatives That Moved Towards Right

7. Trump
8. Jindal
9. Perry

Elected Tea Party

10. Rubio
11. Walker
12. Paul

As Conservative As It Gets

13. Santorum
14. Carson
15. Huckabee
16. Cruz
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2015, 12:28:53 PM »

Moderates

1. Pataki
2. Graham

Establishment Conservatives

3. Kasich
4. Christie
5. Bush
6. Fiorina

Establishment Conservatives That Moved Towards Right

7. Trump
8. Jindal
9. Perry

Elected Tea Party

10. Rubio
11. Walker
12. Paul

As Conservative As It Gets

13. Santorum
14. Carson
15. Huckabee
16. Cruz

These guys may be very socially conservative, but that only comes from their populist conservatism. Huckabee wants to maintain social security and raised taxes as governor. Rick Santorum wants to raise the minimum wage and reducing legal immigration to "protect workers". They could definitely pass as conservative or southern Democrats 25+ years ago.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2015, 01:57:32 PM »

I mean, when we get down to it, conservative and liberal mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.  Despite the fact that abolitionism was largely fueled by Great Awakening inspired evangelism and most of its most ardent supporters hailed from some of the most conservative religious denominations (such as the Quakers), many describe opposing slavery as the "progressive" or "liberal" stance for its time - likely behind the thinking that challenging the existing and "traditional" establishment establishment of slavery was, in effect, challenging societal conservatism.

Disclaimer: I'm pro-choice, but this is an interesting hypothetical to help out my point.  I doubt this will happen, but imagine a future 150 years from now where people look back with horror at the fact that we ever allowed legal abortions.  Let's say society evolves to view abortion much like slavery - a moral evil that they simply can't fathom that we allowed, viewing the fetus much like the helpless slave of the 1800s.  Will they look back at current social conservatives as "progressive for their time," being "ahead" on that issue?  You see the issue with how relative these terms are.  Unfortunately, each person must use his or her own definition, and while I usually (to maintain historical consistency) identify "conservatism" with pro-business policies that benefit the economically independent/advantaged and "liberal" with pro-worker policies that look to mold society to lend a helping hand to the economically advantaged, I'll use a much simpler definition for this exercise:

Conservative rating is based on percentage of issues that the candidate is loyal to Republican Party doctrine, with a "less conservative" boost given to those who I view as being more pragmatic, under the thinking that they might govern more moderately because of those tendencies.

MOST CONSERVATIVE TO MOST LIBERAL
Carson
Jindal
Cruz
Walker
Fiorina
Rubio
Perry
Trump
Santorum
Huckabee
Graham
Christie
Bush
Kasich
Pataki

Why isn't Paul on the list
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Zen Lunatic
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« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2015, 02:06:26 PM »

Moderates

1. Pataki
2. Graham

Establishment Conservatives

3. Kasich
4. Christie
5. Bush
6. Fiorina

Establishment Conservatives That Moved Towards Right

7. Trump
8. Jindal
9. Perry

Elected Tea Party

10. Rubio
11. Walker
12. Paul

As Conservative As It Gets

13. Santorum
14. Carson
15. Huckabee
16. Cruz

These guys may be very socially conservative, but that only comes from their populist conservatism. Huckabee wants to maintain social security and raised taxes as governor. Rick Santorum wants to raise the minimum wage and reducing legal immigration to "protect workers". They could definitely pass as conservative or southern Democrats 25+ years ago.

Huckabee yes, Santorum OTOH never would have fit in with the dixiecrat mold. During the 2012 election I remember him openly denouncing the idea of states rights and quoting Lincoln. If anything he could fit in with old school northern bible thumping Republicans except that he's Catholic instead of some type of Calvinist.
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« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2015, 08:21:32 PM »

I think this is a rather silly, but I'll attempt it anyway. Its still in order, but I separated it into categories.

"Very Conservative"

Cruz
Paul (still carrying a paleocon tradition)
Jindal
Carson (sort of clueless on many things, but attracts the most conservative people)

"Pretty Conservative"

Perry
Walker
Fiorina (didn't really know, so I put her here)
Rubio

"Moderates"

Santorum (for his economic protectionism)
Huckabee (see Santorum)
Bush
Kasich

"RINO's"

Christie
Graham
Pataki
Trump (yes, that's right)

Going along with this:

Very Conservative
Bobby Jindal
Ted Cruz
Ben Carson

Pretty Conservative
Jeb Bush
Marco Rubio
Scott Walker
Carly Fiorina
John Kasich

Moderate
Mike Huckabee
Rick Santorum
Lindsay Graham

RINO
Rand Paul
Chris Christie
George Pataki
Donald Trump
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