Is it time to end Atlasia?

[Blair]

One of the biggest problems is that policy wise there's nothing left to do. We've solved Israel, legalized about everything, got about 10 different healthcare systems, 100 different grant systems. Tbh there's potenial for a Tea Party type considering how liberal we are.

[Classic Conservative]

I feel like we should create a new Atlasia with the three regions, but also let the newbies learn more so they won't become inactive. We should also very soon have a constitutional convention, but let the delegates come up with ideas. But the delegates should, be picked by the regions with different delegates from every new party. So, the new constitution won't be entirely liberal or conservative. So, their would be multiple POVs and more bipartisanship.
I hope to help, if you have any questions please PM me.

[Senator Cris]

I feel like we should create a new Atlasia with the three regions, but also let the newbies learn more so they won't become inactive. We should also very soon have a constitutional convention, but let the delegates come up with ideas. But the delegates should, be picked by the regions with different delegates from every new party. So, the new constitution won't be entirely liberal or conservative. So, their would be multiple POVs and more bipartisanship.
I hope to help, if you have any questions please PM me.

I agree 100% with you.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

barring a reboot/convention/whatever i think a dissolution of the current parties would help raise activity

[Classic Conservative]

barring a reboot/convention/whatever i think a dissolution of the current parties would help raise activity

I completely agree we need new parties and platforms

[Filuwaúrdjan]

No, that was when this game was saved from the small exclusive vision you have for this game.

Ah yes, the same exclusive vision that suggests that a game should be fun. How terrible of me.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Says the guy who's been playing for a decade, masquerading his own fantasy for destruction as a solution for everything

In order for the phoenix to rise there must first be fire.

[Talleyrand]

barring a reboot/convention/whatever i think a dissolution of the current parties would help raise activity

That's a cosmetic change though and won't affect the fundamentals of the game one bit. I imagine within a few weeks, everyone will be back in the same cliques or whatever.

As for a reboot or convention, that's politically unfeasible as long as you have the "regional rights" and reactionaries in this game. The best way forward is to give the game a dignified death after eleven long years and start afresh on a smaller scale with more focus on what actually makes this game fun.

[/]

My proposal:

Everything in atlasia officially dissolves at 12 am est on the day that we decide on. Then we start a constitutional convention; everyone who puts their  name down in a thread created solely for this purpose is a delegate and gets one vote. We vote on a leader and the leader/cohorts introduce a constitution to be voted on. Etc. There are three regions.

[Classic Conservative]

My proposal:

Everything in atlasia officially dissolves at 12 am est on the day that we decide on. Then we start a constitutional convention; everyone who puts their  name down in a thread created solely for this purpose is a delegate and gets one vote. We vote on a leader and the leader/cohorts introduce a constitution to be voted on. Etc. There are three regions.

This, is it.

[Oakvale]

My proposal:

Everything in atlasia officially dissolves at 12 am est on the day that we decide on. Then we start a constitutional convention; everyone who puts their  name down in a thread created solely for this purpose is a delegate and gets one vote. We vote on a leader and the leader/cohorts introduce a constitution to be voted on. Etc. There are three regions.

Stay tuned...

[Leinad]

Bro, it's just a game. You can't sue someone for Libel on Atlasia

Well, I obviously meant Atlasia-sue. Not real life sue. And I wouldn't do it anyway, that's not the type of person I am.

My point was that having laws in Atlasia against sock-accusing wouldn't be too far-fetched.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well, he had three new players all from the same city who all voted the same way in an election. The mods shouldn't have banned him that quickly, but it was hardly shaky evidence now was it.

I don't think JoMCaR had enough evidence to be publically declared guilty as he was. My point is that I was declared guilty by high-ranking Atlasians with even less evidence (i.e. none, as far as I can tell).

[Blair]

Bro, it's just a game. You can't sue someone for Libel on Atlasia

My point was that having laws in Atlasia against sock-accusing wouldn't be too far-fetched.

Yeah it is too far fetched in my view to ban freedom of expression

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Regions don't necessarily have to be part of the change.

[Mechaman]

My point is that I was declared guilty by high-ranking Atlasians with even less evidence (i.e. none, as far as I can tell).

Shut the hell up.  Nobody in any court in Atlasia has declared you guilty of sock-puppetry, regardless of how many illfounded Laborite on the fly accusations say otherwise.  They may be masters of autofellatio, but they are not gods or tyrants.

nb4 AG comes up with a cute conspiracy theory for this post.  In my defense, the Zionist IRC cabal promised me a 2015 Lexus if I put up these distracting issues.

[Potus]

The ideological disconnect between Atlasia and the real world has become too large. This is part of the problem. My views are that of a mainstream, establishment Republican, which will constitute the views of like 20% of the new posters who come here in the run up to 2016. Additionally, another 20% of these new posters will be solidly to the right of me on the spectrum.

My views are unelectable and inapplicable to this game, now. The game hasn't been accurately moderated to make my political views applicable. That's not the fault of any particular Game Moderator, but the GM as an institution. The general attitude toward economic and social simulation has been "Don't rock the boat." The two GMs off the top of my head that did accurately portray at least once aspect of Atlasia were Simfan(the economic) and Kalwejt(the social).

Simfan basically said that our economy was exploding because we were literally becoming the Soviet Union as a result of the dozens of TNF bills. The insane tax rates, the regulations, the laws, etc. that would turn our economy into a basket case didn't until Simfan corrected the numbers, albeit in a radical way. An accurate portrayal of the economic situation would have been a huge boon for the Right. It would have made our political views viable in elections, because we have an answer. He was run out of office.

Kalwejt accurately predicted the huge social upheaval that would exist in Atlasia. Legal polygamy, incest, mass drug decriminalization, the incredible rancor of our political conversation, the dramatic reduction in police forces, etc. would have resulted in chaos. This should have been happening all along. An accurate portrayal of the cops getting run over by protestors or rioters, of families in the West and South arming up to await the Second Coming or going to shoot the protestors, all of this should have been happening all along.

All societies, yes I consider our little community a society, require mediating institutions to function. The primary ones in Atlasia are the parties, the GM, and the regions. These three things are supposed to tether Atlasia to some semblance of reality while also making it an attractive escape from that same reality. It's supposed to be organic and flexible. Those institutions, however, have failed.

The GM has been in decay for a very long time. It's completely failed to tether our game to reality and maintain that healthy balance. The party system has been unable to maintain activity and to adapt to the distorted alternate reality we've created. Conservatives, even a nice moderate center-right type, cannot win in Atlasia. Why participate in the Federalist Party?Both of these factors have trickled down to the regions, destroying regional activity.

With the decline of our game's fundamental infrastructure, we are shutting ourselves to new waves of members and lively elections. When I ran for President, I said the solution to our activity problem wasn't the redistribution of existing activity, but the creation of new activity. I stand by the belief that redistribution isn't going to work. But I no longer believe the creation of new activity is possible given our present circumstances.

I'm on board with major, significant amount of structural reform. Reboot, parliament, etc., etc. I'm all ears.

[Blair]

The ideological disconnect between Atlasia and the real world has become too large. This is part of the problem. My views are that of a mainstream, establishment Republican, which will constitute the views of like 20% of the new posters who come here in the run up to 2016. Additionally, another 20% of these new posters will be solidly to the right of me on the spectrum.

My views are unelectable and inapplicable to this game, now. The game hasn't been accurately moderated to make my political views applicable. That's not the fault of any particular Game Moderator, but the GM as an institution. The general attitude toward economic and social simulation has been "Don't rock the boat." The two GMs off the top of my head that did accurately portray at least once aspect of Atlasia were Simfan(the economic) and Kalwejt(the social).

Simfan basically said that our economy was exploding because we were literally becoming the Soviet Union as a result of the dozens of TNF bills. The insane tax rates, the regulations, the laws, etc. that would turn our economy into a basket case didn't until Simfan corrected the numbers, albeit in a radical way. An accurate portrayal of the economic situation would have been a huge boon for the Right. It would have made our political views viable in elections, because we have an answer. He was run out of office.

Kalwejt accurately predicted the huge social upheaval that would exist in Atlasia. Legal polygamy, incest, mass drug decriminalization, the incredible rancor of our political conversation, the dramatic reduction in police forces, etc. would have resulted in chaos. This should have been happening all along. An accurate portrayal of the cops getting run over by protestors or rioters, of families in the West and South arming up to await the Second Coming or going to shoot the protestors, all of this should have been happening all along.

All societies, yes I consider our little community a society, require mediating institutions to function. The primary ones in Atlasia are the parties, the GM, and the regions. These three things are supposed to tether Atlasia to some semblance of reality while also making it an attractive escape from that same reality. It's supposed to be organic and flexible. Those institutions, however, have failed.

The GM has been in decay for a very long time. It's completely failed to tether our game to reality and maintain that healthy balance. The party system has been unable to maintain activity and to adapt to the distorted alternate reality we've created. Conservatives, even a nice moderate center-right type, cannot win in Atlasia. Why participate in the Federalist Party?Both of these factors have trickled down to the regions, destroying regional activity.

With the decline of our game's fundamental infrastructure, we are shutting ourselves to new waves of members and lively elections. When I ran for President, I said the solution to our activity problem wasn't the redistribution of existing activity, but the creation of new activity. I stand by the belief that redistribution isn't going to work. But I no longer believe the creation of new activity is possible given our present circumstances.

I'm on board with major, significant amount of structural reform. Reboot, parliament, etc., etc. I'm all ears.

Well that's all because the two left wing parties are the largest, and actually organize quite well

[#CriminalizeSobriety]

I can verify that Leinad has only posted from one IP so far, which traces to Georgia. Sock accusations are off-base, at least for the time being.

As for the question in the OP, I vote yes.

Thanks,
Dallas

[bore]

I've been reading this thread with interest, and there are lots of good points being made, from all perspectives.

What is encouraging, at least to me, is the scale of agreement between people of all different parties and viewpoints. We all agree that there should be a politics/government sim. We all agree that atlasia as it is now has confusing legislation, dead institutions and noncompetitive elections. We all agree that something needs to change. That's why, for all it's an important question, the poll is misleading, because Cris and TNF don't really disagree.

It seems there are two paths to get the change we all clearly want, either a constitutional convention under existing procedures or the end of atlasia and then a group setting up a new simulation independently of due processes. The advantage of the concon is it would be more structured but the rules make it difficult to start and also quite a long process, it would, however, be representative of a wide range of perspectives. The advantage and disadvantages of the other option are basically the opposite.

Whatever we do, I think we need a reboot and a different, in at least some ways, system.

[Leinad]

The President makes a well-thought-out, sensible statement, as any President should. We all agree it isn't perfect and something needs to be done. If we start from there and don't have defeatist attitudes, we can save this game.

My point is that I was declared guilty by high-ranking Atlasians with even less evidence (i.e. none, as far as I can tell).

Shut the hell up.  Nobody in any court in Atlasia has declared you guilty of sock-puppetry, regardless of how many illfounded Laborite on the fly accusations say otherwise.  They may be masters of autofellatio, but they are not gods or tyrants.

I misspoke. I didn't mean to imply an official declaration of guilt. I was "declared" "guilty" by the reckless "court" of two people, who happen to hold offices in high places.

As someone said to me, calm down

My point was that having laws in Atlasia against sock-accusing wouldn't be too far-fetched.

Yeah it is too far fetched in my view to ban freedom of expression

Generally I'd be making that same argument, but how much freedom of expression can it really "ban?" Obviously you need checks and balances, but if those checks and balances are there and judges only give penalties to clear offenders, it won't really hurt all that much, at least compared to how much it would help.

I'm not saying to replace the "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude in regards to sock-accusing with the same attitude for punishment of sock-accusers. I'd be much more lenient if it was clearly in jest, or they had, you know, some EVIDENCE, maybe? I guess that's too much to ask, and it's more fun to just point fingers at whoever disagrees with you.

We need civility in Atlasia, or the same people who are bemoaning it's alleged demise will, in fact, kill it themselves.

I can verify that Leinad has only posted from one IP so far, which traces to Georgia. Sock accusations are off-base, at least for the time being.

THANK YOU!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Would it be advisable to have a Moderator General again, even if not as an official office but in the form of one who merely volunteered to verify ips of new members?


We need new membership, but we are also at present under a massive troll/spam/hacker attack as a forum in general, which means some might get unwittingly recruited.

This could also reduce such spurious actions in the future?

Considering the low number of new members who join the game these days, it wouldn't exactly be much of a burden.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The ideological disconnect between Atlasia and the real world has become too large. This is part of the problem. My views are that of a mainstream, establishment Republican, which will constitute the views of like 20% of the new posters who come here in the run up to 2016. Additionally, another 20% of these new posters will be solidly to the right of me on the spectrum.

My views are unelectable and inapplicable to this game, now. The game hasn't been accurately moderated to make my political views applicable. That's not the fault of any particular Game Moderator, but the GM as an institution. The general attitude toward economic and social simulation has been "Don't rock the boat." The two GMs off the top of my head that did accurately portray at least once aspect of Atlasia were Simfan (the economic) and Kalwejt(the social).

Simfan basically said that our economy was exploding because we were literally becoming the Soviet Union as a result of the dozens of TNF bills. The insane tax rates, the regulations, the laws, etc. that would turn our economy into a basket case didn't until Simfan corrected the numbers, albeit in a radical way. An accurate portrayal of the economic situation would have been a huge boon for the Right. It would have made our political views viable in elections, because we have an answer. He was run out of office.

Kalwejt accurately predicted the huge social upheaval that would exist in Atlasia. Legal polygamy, incest, mass drug decriminalization, the incredible rancor of our political conversation, the dramatic reduction in police forces, etc. would have resulted in chaos. This should have been happening all along. An accurate portrayal of the cops getting run over by protestors or rioters, of families in the West and South arming up to await the Second Coming or going to shoot the protestors, all of this should have been happening all along.

All societies, yes I consider our little community a society, require mediating institutions to function. The primary ones in Atlasia are the parties, the GM, and the regions. These three things are supposed to tether Atlasia to some semblance of reality while also making it an attractive escape from that same reality. It's supposed to be organic and flexible. Those institutions, however, have failed.

The GM has been in decay for a very long time. It's completely failed to tether our game to reality and maintain that healthy balance. The party system has been unable to maintain activity and to adapt to the distorted alternate reality we've created. Conservatives, even a nice moderate center-right type, cannot win in Atlasia. Why participate in the Federalist Party?Both of these factors have trickled down to the regions, destroying regional activity.

With the decline of our game's fundamental infrastructure, we are shutting ourselves to new waves of members and lively elections. When I ran for President, I said the solution to our activity problem wasn't the redistribution of existing activity, but the creation of new activity. I stand by the belief that redistribution isn't going to work. But I no longer believe the creation of new activity is possible given our present circumstances.

I'm on board with major, significant amount of structural reform. Reboot, parliament, etc., etc. I'm all ears.

Well that's all because the two left wing parties are the largest, and actually organize quite well

The right got Lumine elected nationwide twice and got Spiral elected in a Senate special election as recently as last year. And save for a failure to cross-preference in April and defections in both June and November, the right would have selected the nation's President all three elections and won four out of four special elections.

This amount of power and influence was unseen and unheard of before 2014 for the right.

Riley twice got put in office by the Federalist Party, both times he did came under fire for being inactive whether fair or not. Many view his actions as contributing to the loss of two Senate seats to the left.

He asks why join the Federalist Party? I tell you why. When a certain poster from West Virginia decided to challenge the healthcare establishment, many said it was too risky. Napoleon said it had oppoened the door to single payer, that it was the most counterproductive and dumb move ever. Yet we took the risk, we debated the bill it was amended but it finally passed by Federalists and SEnators elected with Federalist Support and was signed into law by a President elected as a Federalist (conservative grassroots opposition notwithstanding). Our organization elected Lumine over Adam to the Senate and it made the difference in that fight, a fight Riley started. Just weeks before nationalization blew Atlasia to pieces to pieces in August, our organization delivered a libertarian back into the Senate in an At-LArge Senate election. Whilst others bitched about our imperfections and this or that, it was our efforts that put the Senators in office that blocked TNF on nationalization, that reformed healthcare and restored some sanity to the game after everything went nuts, whilst they voted for for the very people they finally realized were in fact the Socialists they said they were (no kidding. )

Had Riley been an active Governor and avoided so many public controversies, I could have gotten him elected as President or in an At-Large Senate seat. I have no doubt about that that whatsoever. Since then, the right has suffered a net loss of players, still others have resorted to a personal game and abandoned the ideological plane. Riley could have built a new Conservative organization in the Mideast or created a new one from scratch in the Pacific. He had so many opportunities, to overturn conventional wisdom and create that very activity he was talking about. IF you want your views to be electable, then you have to make your views electable. There really was a time when no matter how moderate you were, or how hard you campaigned, you were going to lose. This is not 2011 though and 2014 should illustrate clearly the potential when you consider what was accomplished and what could have been had certain folks concerend themselves more with the bigger picture and less about the distracting side shows, and worked collaboratively together instead of undercutting one another. 

You are not going to change Atlasia by waiting for others to make the moves that will make it fun, nor will you reform your way to activity unless people are committed to actually playing the game and right now that is the biggest problem. I still fail to see reform as a way to break through that barrier, reform is an important tool and a necessary one, but I believe the needed change is a change in thought and style with regards to how this game is approached.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We have also have go to come to terms with the important of a realistic, dynamic and bold GM who brings consequences for actions and we have got to stop this public lynching of the damn GM every eight months.

In five years, serious efforts to reform the post were made by people from Purple State to Averoess Nix, with me involved either directly or indirectly in every one of those efforts as far back as 2009. All those reforms came to nothing, because everytime the GM did something that did not comport with preconceived notions or people's own personal grand vision for a boring statistic manager or some other conception, they proceeded to tar and feather the poor sap.

You can reform all you want, but until we change as players change the way we act nothing will change. It will be the same no matter how radical, no matter how different the structure of the game becomes, because when you return, it the same old place with the same old people. No matter what you do, you can never run away from you. TNF said I destroyed this game, yet what about the ones who have nuked our Game Engine everytime "sh**t gets real" over and over again for Six fing years.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

While I assume the usual suspects will chime in, with the usual responses... I've been thinking a lot more about this than I should of late. Fundamentally, this game used to have a few "warlords" but it seems there are too many, whose focus is on "winning", usually to the detriment of this game. The problem being no one really knows what constitutes "winning".

I've said before that TNF is someone I respect, I don't agree with him on very much, but TNF and his aggressive views are not the issue here. I do genuinely think that what made Atlasia "work" for most of its history has been needing to build coalitions and work together. Now, this isn't some kind of idealistic view of the past, a LOT of people said really nasty things about each other and still got stuff done.

I do think the collapse of the centre as a political force has hurt the game. I know the left in particular will be pained by this, but to me, this is a big deal. You didn't have as many voters in the past, but you certainly had a more engaged political element. Is it worth having lots of voters in your party, if you can't fill satisfactorily fill the roles we have. 

I do think people need to seriously look at what they want out of this game and what they have to offer. I've never before been supportive of a reset, but now... I'm feeling it might be necessary. This is not something that has emerged over the past month, so those who think so, need to really examine the course we've been travelling... this has been a long time in the making.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

While I assume the usual suspects will chime in, with the usual responses... I've been thinking a lot more about this than I should of late. Fundamentally, this game used to have a few "warlords" but it seems there are too many, whose focus is on "winning", usually to the detriment of this game. The problem being no one really knows what constitutes "winning".

I've said before that TNF is someone I respect, I don't agree with him on very much, but TNF and his aggressive views are not the issue here. I do genuinely think that what made Atlasia "work" for most of its history has been needing to build coalitions and work together. Now, this isn't some kind of idealistic view of the past, a LOT of people said really nasty things about each other and still got stuff done.

I do think the collapse of the centre as a political force has hurt the game. I know the left in particular will be pained by this, but to me, this is a big deal. You didn't have as many voters in the past, but you certainly had a more engaged political element. Is it worth having lots of voters in your party, if you can't fill satisfactorily fill the roles we have. 

I do think people need to seriously look at what they want out of this game and what they have to offer. I've never before been supportive of a reset, but now... I'm feeling it might be necessary. This is not something that has emerged over the past month, so those who think so, need to really examine the course we've been travelling... this has been a long time in the making.

You contradict yourself. On the one hand you said this has been slowly building ing general, but then say "Atlasia has gotten along even whilst name calling occured" before. That is precisely my point, the loss of active players, especially on the right but not just on that side, has been building in numbers over time and a good number of people have often cited the tone. Absolving those who have caused this (it is not TNF alone by any means) ignores this very real reality and perhaps you have that luxury. You didn't have the luxury of "exit" PMs sent to you before people marched off to deregister.

It is also the easiest thing in the world to spot. Voluntary game, deregistration is immediate save for during elections. It doesn't take a lot to realize, that throwing a toxic environment into that could become catastrophic has little byl ittle players have said they have had enough.