Boyd K. Packer, the highest-ranking Mormon apostle, is dead at 90

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

http://www.sltrib.com/home/2694491-155/boyd-packer-dies-lds-church-confirms

With Packer's death, Russell M. Nelson (also 90) is the new President of the Quorum of the Twelve, and next in line to succeed prophet Thomas S. Monson. Should he die, the Presidency will go to Dalin H. Oaks (82) and then to M. Russell Ballard (86).

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Never heard of.

[Zioneer]

As a side note, Packer was one of the hardline "traditionalist" apostles who vehemently opposed what he saw as unnecessary social change and the tradition of Mormon intellectuals who poked into the history of the church. L Tom Perry was similar in his approach, though not quite as vehement (as he supported Utah's recent anti-discrimination law, for example).

Nelson doesn't really have a theological political/cultural side, but Oaks is very theologically conservative. Basically, Packer and Oaks cause liberals (theological and political) a lot of heartburn, and before Packer's death, the thought of him or Oaks becoming prophet was very alarming to the liberals.

Packer had been very sickly for a while (unlike Perry, whose death was sudden) though, so there was little chance of him becoming prophet.

It's likely that a non-American will replace either Packer or Perry, as the church has a rapidly growing non-American population.

Also, should I revive my old thread that talked about Mormonism generally? In case there's major news involving the LDS Church, I feel like we should keep it in one thread.

[Classic Conservative]

RIP.

[Mr. Smith]

Not surprised at all, considering how close to death's door he looked at the last General Conference.

Pity, since I appreciated his earnest, soft-spoken approach to topics that isn't really seen much in the traditionalist side.

[Simfan34]

What happened to Dieter Uchtdorf? Isn't he third in line?

[Zioneer]

What happened to Dieter Uchtdorf? Isn't he third in line?

This is a good chance to explain succession in the LDS Church and the First Presidency. Basically, God chooses the next prophet, but since Joseph Smith's death, it's always been the Apostle with the most seniority. Thomas S Monson was ordained an Apostle in 1963, so he became prophet and President of the Church when Gordon B Hinckley died.

 The second most senior apostle (who is bumped up to first in line to be prophet because the most senior just became prophet) becomes President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the difference could be compared to a Speaker of the House and a Majority Leader, or President and Vice President). Boyd K Packer, who was ordained an Apostle in 1970, was first in line to become prophet and thus President of the Quorum before his death.

The First Presidency is comprised of the Prophet and two councilors, without any regard to seniority. They govern the church, but their service does not improve their seniority. 1st Councilor Henry B Eyring and Second Counciler Dieter F Uchtdorf are (as of Packers death) 8th and 9th most senior respectively. While they technically have more authority than the Quorum of the Twelve, they're still members of the Quorum, and their seniority goes along at the same pace.

To become prophet, Uchtdorf would have to outlive President of the Church Thomas S Monson, as well as now-President of the Quorum Russell M Nelson, Dallin H Oaks, M Russell Ballard, Richard G Scott, Robert D Hales, Jeffery R Holland, and his fellow councilor Henry B Eyring.

Uchtdorf is younger than all of them at age 70, and Monson, Scott, and Hales are in poor health, but considering that the rest are currently in good health, it would take a lot of deaths to make Uchtdorf President of the Church before he dies. Assuming no untimely deaths, the most likely to become Prophet/President after Monson's death are Oaks and Holland for at least a decade combined.

Oh, and Dallin H Oaks is currently third in line. He's a former Utah Supreme Court Judge and President of BYU. Very scholarly and lawyerly.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Is Nelson on death's door? I'd assume he is, being 90.

[Mr. Smith]

Is Nelson on death's door? I'd assume he is, being 90.

The way Apostles are, you can never quite know, except that they live long.

For example, Spencer W. Kimball [he was one of the strongest advocates for lifting the Priesthood ban, and ultimately was able to in '78] was seemingly always in bad health, and yet for 13 years he still managed the Church.


But on the other, the president right before him seemed in great health, but ultimately didn't even last very long.

I therefore'd hesitate to say too much, even with him [Nelson] being 90, especially since he's apparently still a little athletic and his last talk was easily one of the most spirited.

[Zioneer]

Is Nelson on death's door? I'd assume he is, being 90.

Actually, he's in really good health for being 90. Spry, articulate, and without the cotton-mouth that plague the older members of the Quorum like Packer (his was especially bad, you could barely understand him sometimes) or President Monson (who according to the church is "feeling the effects of age" and who may have dementia).

Nelson is a former heart doctor (he even operated on the aforementioned Spencer W Kimball), so he may have paid better attention to his health than the others. Especially comparing him to Packer, he's in great shape for a 90 year old.

[Simfan34]

Thanks, Zioneer. Another question- what is it with Mormons and middle initials?

[Mr. Smith]

Thanks, Zioneer. Another question- what is it with Mormons and middle initials?

I believe I can answer that.

We like middle names, especially if there's some kind of genealogical significance that can be tacked on.

[Zioneer]

Thanks, Zioneer. Another question- what is it with Mormons and middle initials?

L.D. Smith answered that, but specifically for leaders, we've had a lot of apostles with similar or the same names, so we use initials to tell them apart. For example, our first prophet was named Joseph Smith (whose own father was also named Joseph Smith), who is identified various as simply Joseph Smith, The Prophet, Joseph Smith Junior, or Brother Joseph (in contemporary accounts). Joseph Smith had a son named Joseph Smith (who became leader of the Reorganized LDS, now known as the Community of Christ), and a nephew who was also named Joseph Smith, who became sixth prophet-president of the Church.

The first Joseph's son was known as Joseph Smith III, while his nephew had the middle name of Fielding, so was known as Joseph F. Smith. Joseph F. Smith also had a son named Joseph Fielding Smith, who became tenth prophet-president, and thus had his full name used to not confuse him with the other two. Even more confusing, the eighth prophet was George Albert Smith, who was himself son of an apostle with the same name (served as an apostle at the same time, in fact), and was cousin to all of the Josephs. We've had a lot of Smiths, basically.

Similarly, the twelfth prophet was Ezra Taft Benson, who was great-grandson of an apostle of the same name.

So we've needed the middle initials to differentiate all of these related prophets and apostles, and now that we've started, we just naturally do it for even apostles unrelated to any of the other apostles (like Uchtdorf, who is completely unrelated to all of the rest).

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Why is Heber such a common name?

[Zioneer]

Why is Heber such a common name?

Probably because it was a common name when the LDS Church started up. Heber C Kimball was a very popular apostle, after all. And being a polygamist, he had a lot of kids, who then spread his name. And people seemed to like it back then even if they were unrelated (like Heber J Grant).

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Why is Heber such a common name?

Probably because it was a common name when the LDS Church started up. Heber C Kimball was a very popular apostle, after all. And being a polygamist, he had a lot of kids, who then spread his name. And people seemed to like it back then even if they were unrelated (like Heber J Grant).

Coolcoolcool.

[Zioneer]

Why is Heber such a common name?

Probably because it was a common name when the LDS Church started up. Heber C Kimball was a very popular apostle, after all. And being a polygamist, he had a lot of kids, who then spread his name. And people seemed to like it back then even if they were unrelated (like Heber J Grant).

Coolcoolcool.

Joseph is also a popular Utah Mormon name, as is Nephi and Alma (Both Book of Mormon names, though this is a masculine name in the BoM as opposed to a feminine name in non-Mormon communities). Ammon is a common name as well.

Congressman Rob Bishop in Utah is a pretty clear example of a family going overboard on Book of Mormon names. His kids names are Shule, Jarom, Zenock, Maren, and Jashon, with all but the girl's name (Maren) being obscure names directly taken from the Book of Mormon. Even most Mormons don't go that far. Though my favorite weird Utah name is Nephi United States Centennial Jensen. It's a real name, look it up.

Excluding the two deceased Apostles, the names of current apostles number thus:

1 Thomas/Tom
1 Henry
1 Dieter
2 Russell
1 Dallin
1 Richard
1 Robert
1 Jeffrey
1 David
1 Quentin
1 Todd
1 Neil

Before it included another Tom and one Boyd. My guess is that we'll see one Anglo name and one Hispanic name when new Apostles are appointed.

[Sol]

Mormon naming practices are super-interesting, IMO. Although man's last name as first name is not just a Mormon thing; it's pretty common across the U.S. [1]--I suppose with the difference being that Heber is more common as a name in Utah.

[1] Although more commonly for girls than boys--Mackenzie, Madison, etc.

[Mr. Smith]

Heber has nothing on Hyrum/Hiram though (or Brigham for that matter). Seems like every city's church I've been to, there's been at least one Hyrum.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Heber has nothing on Hyrum/Hiram though (or Brigham for that matter). Seems like every city's church I've been to, there's been at least one Hyrum.

Hence Hyrum Graff, from Ender's Game.

And why is Jensen such a common name? Nephi U.S.C. Jensen, Emma Jensen (mother of Boyd L. Packer), the Jensen family in my town, etc.

[Zioneer]

Heber has nothing on Hyrum/Hiram though (or Brigham for that matter). Seems like every city's church I've been to, there's been at least one Hyrum.

Hence Hyrum Graff, from Ender's Game.

And why is Jensen such a common name? Nephi U.S.C. Jensen, Emma Jensen (mother of Boyd L. Packer), the Jensen family in my town, etc.

Danish immigrant converts, mostly. After the original Yankee converts and the Nauvoo-era British converts, the Danish were the largest ethnic group/nationality in early Mormonism. With all the polygamy and inter-group marriage, almost everyone who has pioneer heritage has Danish ancestors, hence the popularity of the name Jensen. I don't have pioneer ancestry, but that's mostly because my family converted in the 1920s and 1930s, and weren't living in Utah. I have mostly German, Polish, Swiss, and French-Canadian ancestry.

[Zioneer]

Also, here's a photo of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in 2009, when everybody was healthy.



Top row left to right: Richard G Scott, Robert D Hales, Jeffrey R Holland, David A Bednar, Quentin L Cook, D Todd Christofferson, and Neil L Anderson.

Bottom row left to right: Boyd K Packer, L Tom Perry, Russell M Nelson (who is now President of the Quorum), Dallin H Oaks, and M Russell Ballard.

And the First Presidency.



First Councilor Henry B Eyring, President of the Church Thomas S Monson, and Second Councilor Dieter F Uchtdorf.

And a list of the Apostles seniority, pre-Packer and Perry death. The names in purple are prophets who died and whose vacancy those apostles filled.