The paradox of Vladimir Putin

[buritobr]

If we want to classify Vladimir Putin in the left-right scale, we should consider him a right-wing, both on economic and social issues.

But on foreign policy, he is close to Raul Castro, Maduro and Tsipras.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Just because he will reach out to countries that the US has screwed over doesn't mean he's not right-wing.

[ag]

If we want to classify Vladimir Putin in the left-right scale, we should consider him a right-wing, both on economic and social issues.

But on foreign policy, he is close to Raul Castro, Maduro and Tsipras.

As well as pretty much every neofascist party in Europe. He is a rabble-rouser. Not much ideology anywhere.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Not much of a paradox here.

Putin is supporting any foreign government or foreign political party which could be regarded as vaguely pro-Russian. Of course, pro-Russian governments/parties are almost always anti-Western or anti-American too. For instance, the most pro-Russian parties in Germany are probably the Left Party, the AfD, and the NPD, even it is only due to anti-Americanism.

Ideologically, the best term to describe Putin would be "national conservative" I guess.

[JohnRM]

Despite my own inclinations (as a nationalist American/Anglophile), I believe that Putin is the best thing for Russia. They are simply not of a disposition to be capable of carrying out western-style democracy. It would be (and was) senseless to think it could be forced. They need to evolve socially at their own pace. If we leave them be to figure it out for themselves, I am confident that they will get there some day.

With regard to the recent conflict(s); the west has to take a fair amount of responsibility for it. After promising Russia that we would not expand NATO and its sphere any further east than Germany, we reneged on it, first with the Baltics and Poland, and later with Georgia. Russia did what it felt was necessary to maintain its security sphere which is why we have the mess that we have today in Ukraine and most recently in Georgia.

Now NATO and the west only have two bad options. We can't back down, because that would only encourage further aggression, but few decision-makers are thoroughly convinced that we have the moral high-ground, either, so we're reluctant to move forward and act decisively. The obvious solution is direct talks with Russia to come to a compromise that both sides can accept.

But, all that aside, Putin is the ideal Russian leader.

[© tweed]

Just because he will reach out to countries that the US has screwed over doesn't mean he's not right-wing.

yes.  countries that have shaken off the imperial yoke often enjoy decent diplomatic relations with one another, despite radically different "ideologies".  see Iran and the pink tide Latin American countries, for example.

[ag]

Despite my own inclinations (as a nationalist American/Anglophile), I believe that Putin is the best thing for Russia. They are simply not of a disposition to be capable of carrying out western-style democracy. It would be (and was) senseless to think it could be forced. They need to evolve socially at their own pace

Yeah, those semi-human Russian Neanderthals need a good stick, or else they will revert to being cannibals.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

We're I not wary of invoking Godwin I would replace "Russia" with "Germany" and "Putin" with "you know who" in John's post...

[JohnRM]

We're I not wary of invoking Godwin I would replace "Russia" with "Germany" and "Putin" with "you know who" in John's post...

Equating Putin with Adolf Hitler is completely asinine and implies a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the geopolitical situation, both now and in the past.

[ag]

We're I not wary of invoking Godwin I would replace "Russia" with "Germany" and "Putin" with "you know who" in John's post...

Equating Putin with Adolf Hitler is completely asinine and implies a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the geopolitical situation, both now and in the past.

No more so than posting the bull about Russia you just did in this thread.

[Crumpets]

Democrats like to point to the US as a country where center-right is center-left and right-wing is center-right. This may or may not be the case, but in Russia it is absolutely the case and extremely so. All of the liberal icons in Russia such as Mikhail Prokhorov and Pussy Riot are still very religious, anti-socialist, and generally on the right of what most Europeans and Americans would consider "center." Putin is definitely to the right of Merkel or Cameron, but he is very much in the center of Russian political opinion.

[JohnRM]

We're I not wary of invoking Godwin I would replace "Russia" with "Germany" and "Putin" with "you know who" in John's post...

Equating Putin with Adolf Hitler is completely asinine and implies a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the geopolitical situation, both now and in the past.

No more so than posting the bull about Russia you just did in this thread.

I'm not the one who evoked a dictator that is arguably responsible for more than 50 million deaths and equated him with what is at least a nominally democratically elected chief magistrate who may have played the part in a handful of deaths, but is absolutely responsible for holding a fragile Russian Federation together that would otherwise likely collapse into a series of wars across the country with a high degree of likelihood that its nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons would slip from its control. And for what? Because he intervened in the internal affairs of two countries after being provoked by Europe and NATO's own interventions in the same two countries.

Yeah, you know, I can substitute a few words for others and make any story sound the way I want it to, as well. It's called the English language. I'm glad you like it.

[eric82oslo]

If we want to classify Vladimir Putin in the left-right scale, we should consider him a right-wing, both on economic and social issues.

But on foreign policy, he is close to Raul Castro, Maduro and Tsipras.

This is only because he's very close to every leader who hates either the US or/and EU. Every single one of them. He absolutely adores to hate the US and EU (as well as NATO).

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I wasn't really comparing the two dictators. I was just noting the idea that some people are "unsuited" for democracy frivolous nonsense.

[ag]

We're I not wary of invoking Godwin I would replace "Russia" with "Germany" and "Putin" with "you know who" in John's post...

Equating Putin with Adolf Hitler is completely asinine and implies a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the geopolitical situation, both now and in the past.

No more so than posting the bull about Russia you just did in this thread.

I'm not the one who evoked a dictator

Which is not saying much.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I wasn't really comparing the two dictators. I was just noting the idea that some people are "unsuited" for democracy frivolous nonsense.

Seriously. Hasn't that ridiculous and chauvinistic notion long since been proven wrong in many different parts of the world? Get with the times, people.

[smoltchanov]

Well, as a Russian living now in Moscow i will say that Putin (regretfully) is really an ideal candidate for vast majority of Russian electorate. Not for me (i never voted for him and don't intend to), but for big majority - sure. In fact - he is even slightly more "pro-western" then most people here (you have only to know Russian, and listen to the "political talk" in Moscow area buses - and you will be convinced..). There is an extremely strong anti-West propaganda in Russian mass media in the last couple of years, and, as a result - about 25% of population changed their political stripes: if 2 years ago Putin's rating usually stood at about 60 - 40, now it's routinely something about 85 - 15

[ag]

Well, as a Russian living now in Moscow i will say that Putin (regretfully) is really an ideal candidate for vast majority of Russian electorate. Not for me (i never voted for him and don't intend to), but for big majority - sure. In fact - he is even slightly more "pro-western" then most people here (you have only to know Russian, and listen to the "political talk" in Moscow area buses - and you will be convinced..). There is an extremely strong anti-West propaganda in Russian mass media in the last couple of years, and, as a result - about 25% of population changed their political stripes: if 2 years ago Putin's rating usually stood at about 60 - 40, now it's routinely something about 85 - 15

Do you really think, it would be that hard to convert this into 15:85?

[smoltchanov]

Well, as a Russian living now in Moscow i will say that Putin (regretfully) is really an ideal candidate for vast majority of Russian electorate. Not for me (i never voted for him and don't intend to), but for big majority - sure. In fact - he is even slightly more "pro-western" then most people here (you have only to know Russian, and listen to the "political talk" in Moscow area buses - and you will be convinced..). There is an extremely strong anti-West propaganda in Russian mass media in the last couple of years, and, as a result - about 25% of population changed their political stripes: if 2 years ago Putin's rating usually stood at about 60 - 40, now it's routinely something about 85 - 15

Do you really think, it would be that hard to convert this into 15:85?

Yes. Because opposition will not get a mass media in monopol use for couple of years anytime soon. And this is a precondition for it... In Gorbachev's time all mass media worked on improving western image in minds of "soviet people" for years and it's began to have effect only after 2-3 years...

[Vosem]

There is a great deal of total bullsh**t in this thread, but by far the most bizarre thing was whoever called Pussy Riot religious and anti-socialist. They are anti-religious and socialist, in fact.

[smoltchanov]

There is a great deal of total bullsh**t in this thread, but by far the most bizarre thing was whoever called Pussy Riot religious and anti-socialist. They are anti-religious and socialist, in fact.

Absolutely.

[ag]

Well, as a Russian living now in Moscow i will say that Putin (regretfully) is really an ideal candidate for vast majority of Russian electorate. Not for me (i never voted for him and don't intend to), but for big majority - sure. In fact - he is even slightly more "pro-western" then most people here (you have only to know Russian, and listen to the "political talk" in Moscow area buses - and you will be convinced..). There is an extremely strong anti-West propaganda in Russian mass media in the last couple of years, and, as a result - about 25% of population changed their political stripes: if 2 years ago Putin's rating usually stood at about 60 - 40, now it's routinely something about 85 - 15

Do you really think, it would be that hard to convert this into 15:85?

Yes. Because opposition will not get a mass media in monopol use for couple of years anytime soon. And this is a precondition for it... In Gorbachev's time all mass media worked on improving western image in minds of "soviet people" for years and it's began to have effect only after 2-3 years...

Just switch the towers off

When we come to power, we shall switch all Russian TV to porn broadcast on 24-7 basis

You thought you could get away from the Russian conversation style on this forum, didn't you?

[smoltchanov]

^ We shall see))))

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Smolt, what does

))))
 
Mean? Are you some sort of CIA mole in Moscow placing secret codes in web forums? I hope you are.

[ag]

^ We shall see))))

Anyway, switching Russian TV to round-the-clock porn would be a big improvement. Especially the prime-time gay porn shows: might even solve the problem of employment for Mr. Milonov