Eric Holder -Justice Dept Could Strike Deal with Edward Snowden

[Antonio the Sixth]

Why should he be punished at all if what he did was right?

If anything he should be praised. We need more people to be willing to speak out.

Chelsea Manning took her punishment. That is the point of martyrdom-that the victim suffer for the greater good.

What kind of logic is that? You want people who did nothing wrong to be unjustly punished just so that they can then claim to be martyrs? Isn't the world better if we don't actively try to create martyrs?

He did break a law. You can't pick and choose what laws to follow, whether they are right or wrong. Should I not buy health insurance because I oppose Obamacare?

If a law is morally wrong and some people are being prosecuted and jailed under it, the law in question should be immediately repealed and the people pardoned. I don't support making individual exceptions, but I fully support fixing what's broken.

It should be immediately repealed and Snowden should eventually pardoned, but neither are going to happen. If Snowden returns to the United States, he should face charges and take his medicine like a man. If he stays in Russia, he can wait it out and eventually be pardoned. But until the law is repealed, they are still in effect.

I agree that would be symbolically the best thing to do, but honestly, if I were in his shoes, I wouldn't want to rot in jail for breaking an immoral law. I would feel horrible about becoming Putin's puppet, but I would still swallow my pride to retain some freedom. Not everyone can be a hero.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

There is no reason to make a deal with Snowden. He has already clearly spilled all the beans he had in his possession. The only reason to bring him back now is for execution. Clearly, we can't make a deal that he would accept that would allow us to do that.

So you really think the gummit knows exactly how he did what he did?  Interesting. 

I also think there's a massive doc dump he hasn't gone through with yet that all sides are very content to keep quiet about.

[CapoteMonster]

Obama should officially recognize Crimea as Russian territory in exchange for the delivery of Snowden's severed head in a gift-wrapped box to the White House.

I would hope it would be part of a larger agreement aimed at detente.

You guys are sick. Wishing a beheading is inhumane and in poor taste even if it's a joke.

Who decided that being "humane" was an objectively good thing? Not my government!

Doesn't mean that you can't demand better of them.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Why should he be punished at all if what he did was right?

If anything he should be praised. We need more people to be willing to speak out.

Chelsea Manning took her punishment. That is the point of martyrdom-that the victim suffer for the greater good.

What kind of logic is that? You want people who did nothing wrong to be unjustly punished just so that they can then claim to be martyrs? Isn't the world better if we don't actively try to create martyrs?

He did break a law. You can't pick and choose what laws to follow, whether they are right or wrong. Should I not buy health insurance because I oppose Obamacare?

If a law is morally wrong and some people are being prosecuted and jailed under it, the law in question should be immediately repealed and the people pardoned. I don't support making individual exceptions, but I fully support fixing what's broken.

It should be immediately repealed and Snowden should eventually pardoned, but neither are going to happen. If Snowden returns to the United States, he should face charges and take his medicine like a man. If he stays in Russia, he can wait it out and eventually be pardoned. But until the law is repealed, they are still in effect.

I agree that would be symbolically the best thing to do, but honestly, if I were in his shoes, I wouldn't want to rot in jail for breaking an immoral law. I would feel horrible about becoming Putin's puppet, but I would still swallow my pride to retain some freedom. Not everyone can be a hero.

I don't disagree with that statement. I'd probably stay in Russia too.

[Lief 🗽]

Obama should officially recognize Crimea as Russian territory in exchange for the delivery of Snowden's severed head in a gift-wrapped box to the White House.

I would hope it would be part of a larger agreement aimed at detente.

You guys are sick. Wishing a beheading is inhumane and in poor taste even if it's a joke.

Sympathy for traitors is more sickening to me than a good clean beheading of a rat like Snowden.

[SWE]

Why should he be punished at all if what he did was right?

If anything he should be praised. We need more people to be willing to speak out.

Chelsea Manning took her punishment. That is the point of martyrdom-that the victim suffer for the greater good.

What kind of logic is that? You want people who did nothing wrong to be unjustly punished just so that they can then claim to be martyrs? Isn't the world better if we don't actively try to create martyrs?

He did break a law. You can't pick and choose what laws to follow, whether they are right or wrong. Should I not buy health insurance because I oppose Obamacare?

Injust laws should not be followed, no. That's why people like MLK and Nelson Mandela are universally recognized as heroes.

Your position here is bizarre on a Wulfric-level. Injustice should exist so that injustice can be fought?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Why should he be punished at all if what he did was right?

If anything he should be praised. We need more people to be willing to speak out.

Chelsea Manning took her punishment. That is the point of martyrdom-that the victim suffer for the greater good.

What kind of logic is that? You want people who did nothing wrong to be unjustly punished just so that they can then claim to be martyrs? Isn't the world better if we don't actively try to create martyrs?

He did break a law. You can't pick and choose what laws to follow, whether they are right or wrong. Should I not buy health insurance because I oppose Obamacare?

Injust laws should not be followed, no. That's why people like MLK and Nelson Mandela are universally recognized as heroes.

Your position here is bizarre on a Wulfric-level. Injustice should exist so that injustice can be fought?

Because everyone totally agrees on what is objectively moral and just, so they all can decide, subjectively, what rules to follow and not follow.

[DrScholl]

Snowden is not MLK or Nelson Mandela, far from it, because they didn't flee their respective countries and actually went to jail in their fights. Whether or not you think the public was entitled to see the information he leaked is not the point, the point is that leaking classified information is illegal and there are no exceptions based on what the data is. I think a negotiated plea deal is more than fair.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The M Night Shamalalan twist, of course, would be that Snowden was working for the CIA the whole time and comes back with armfuls of Kremlin info.

[badgate]

Obama should just pardon him on January 20, 2017.

+ Chelsea Manning imo

[WVdemocrat]

Obama should officially recognize Crimea as Russian territory in exchange for the delivery of Snowden's severed head in a gift-wrapped box to the White House.

I would hope it would be part of a larger agreement aimed at detente.

You guys are sick. Wishing a beheading is inhumane and in poor taste even if it's a joke.

Sympathy for traitors is more sickening to me than a good clean beheading of a rat like Snowden.

Oh please. He's stated time and time again that he did what he did out of the ideals this country was founded on. And have you ever heard him speak? It's quite clear that he did this because he believed what was going on was wrong.

As to whether we should cut a deal with him, or pardon him, I don't know. I think what he did was right, because he exposed an unconstitutional domestic spying program, but to pardon him would also be to perhaps tacitly encourage would-be whistleblowers. Snowden was justified, but others who might seek to leak information might not be. They could be doing for fame, for traitorous reasons, or otherwise. The best way out of this might be for a plea deal with specifically outlined reasons for why we're cutting a deal (other than the obvious one: he was right). I wouldn't object to Obama pardoning him on his last day in office though. There is the potential for repercussions though, which we would have to deal with.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The only reason to bring him back now is for execution.

I think this would make the United States the first country in the world to execute a Right Livelihood Award laureate.

no one in the United States knows what that is.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Snowden is not MLK or Nelson Mandela, far from it, because they didn't flee their respective countries and actually went to jail in their fights. Whether or not you think the public was entitled to see the information he leaked is not the point, the point is that leaking classified information is illegal and there are no exceptions based on what the data is. I think a negotiated plea deal is more than fair.

I honestly can't believe I am agreeing with Dr.Scholl, but yes, you are dead on the money.

Why should he be punished at all if what he did was right?

If anything he should be praised. We need more people to be willing to speak out.

Chelsea Manning took her punishment. That is the point of martyrdom-that the victim suffer for the greater good.

What kind of logic is that? You want people who did nothing wrong to be unjustly punished just so that they can then claim to be martyrs? Isn't the world better if we don't actively try to create martyrs?

He did break a law. You can't pick and choose what laws to follow, whether they are right or wrong. Should I not buy health insurance because I oppose Obamacare?

Injust laws should not be followed, no. That's why people like MLK and Nelson Mandela are universally recognized as heroes.

Your position here is bizarre on a Wulfric-level. Injustice should exist so that injustice can be fought?

Of course, I believe in a society based on law and order and peaceful, non agressive resolutions to injustice. You are a fifteen year old who has a fetish for bloodshed. Come back and talk about disturbing the peace for "muh justice" when you learn to shoot a gun or do something actually revolutionary, my dear Comrade.

[7,052,770]

This thread is so Atlas...

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I mean, Snowden probably didn't do what he did entirely out of the goodness of his heart, but he's also not the second coming of Kim Philby or whatever. JohnRM and Lief's rhetoric on this point would be difficult to take seriously were it not for the uncomfortable fact that it represents as many people's views as it does.

[Mr. Morden]

"Justice Dept Could Strike Deal with Edward Snowden"

So Lincoln Chafee's national security policy is already being enacted before he's won a single primary?  His candidacy is already kilometers more successful than I ever imagined.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

"Justice Dept Could Strike Deal with Edward Snowden"

So Lincoln Chafee's national security policy is already being enacted before he's won a single primary?  His candidacy is already kilometers more successful than I ever imagined.

He's definitely ahead of the other candidates here by 1.609344 kilometers.

[Simfan34]

I mean, Snowden probably didn't do what he did entirely out of the goodness of his heart, but he's also not the second coming of Kim Philby or whatever. JohnRM and Lief's rhetoric on this point would be difficult to take seriously were it not for the uncomfortable fact that it represents as many people's views as it does.

I mean, it's not like he defected to the Russians or anything... and what unjust laws did he break? The right of diplomatic officials to communicate with each other in private? The right of our diplomats to speak freely to one another? That doesn't help me.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Why should he be punished at all if what he did was right?

If anything he should be praised. We need more people to be willing to speak out.

Chelsea Manning took her punishment. That is the point of martyrdom-that the victim suffer for the greater good.

What kind of logic is that? You want people who did nothing wrong to be unjustly punished just so that they can then claim to be martyrs? Isn't the world better if we don't actively try to create martyrs?

He did break a law. You can't pick and choose what laws to follow, whether they are right or wrong. Should I not buy health insurance because I oppose Obamacare?

If a law is morally wrong and some people are being prosecuted and jailed under it, the law in question should be immediately repealed and the people pardoned. I don't support making individual exceptions, but I fully support fixing what's broken.

It should be immediately repealed and Snowden should eventually pardoned, but neither are going to happen. If Snowden returns to the United States, he should face charges and take his medicine like a man. If he stays in Russia, he can wait it out and eventually be pardoned. But until the law is repealed, they are still in effect.

I agree that would be symbolically the best thing to do, but honestly, if I were in his shoes, I wouldn't want to rot in jail for breaking an immoral law. I would feel horrible about becoming Putin's puppet, but I would still swallow my pride to retain some freedom. Not everyone can be a hero.

Are you saying that the law preventing people from disseminating classified information is itself immoral? Which law is it that's immoral?

[CH86]

Snowden is a traitor who back when we still enforced our laws, would have been tried an executed for treason.

[politicus]

Not being able to grant Snowden political asylum (in a NATO country..) would take some of the fun out of the Icelandic Pirate Party winning their 2017 election.