Kids Shouldn't Die from Preventable Diseases... Act

[Blair]

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Sponsor: TNF, so will need a new sponsor to continue

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I can assume the sponsorship.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I think there is something to work with here, but the current text is overbroad. I hope to see a scaled-back version passed.

[Blair]

Any objections to kal becoming the sponsor? 24 hours to object

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

     I think there is something to work with here, but the current text is overbroad. I hope to see a scaled-back version passed.

In terms of a scaled-back version what would be acceptable in your view?

[bore]

I think what we should be looking at is eliminating personal belief exemptions, but not religious ones. For one thing the numbers of sects that are morally against vaccinations are tiny, so herd immunity will cover them.

Generally speaking I think we should let people act according to their conscience unless there is an overriding reason not to, and in this case, given herd immunity, I don't think there is an overriding reason. If their numbers were enough to undermine herd immunity than we should override the objection because you don't have the right to hurt your child, but for these groups they don't, so it's not worth it.

Now I guess the argument that personal beliefs should be just as valid as religious ones, and I agree in principle with this, could be made at this point. But, in the case of vaccines the majority of exemptions are for personal beliefs and they tend to be based on bad science rather than dodgy ethics, so it's not so much a case of overriding someone's conscience.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I think what we should be looking at is eliminating personal belief exemptions, but not religious ones. For one thing the numbers of sects that are morally against vaccinations are tiny, so herd immunity will cover them.

Playing moderate on this is eliminating the whole purpouse of this bill.

I firmly believe that the child's right to have a proper medical care, and vaccination are important part of this, definitively outweights parents religious reservations. The child cannot decide for himself and, thus, should not be forced by the parents not to take a vaccination because of what are their own beliefs.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I think there is something to work with here, but the current text is overbroad. I hope to see a scaled-back version passed.

In terms of a scaled-back version what would be acceptable in your view?

     The President touched on one issue in terms of leaving religious exemptions alone. Also, I was thinking about specifically making this about schools (though I don't know how many other vaccine laws exist), since lack of proper vaccination in a school environment can have devastating results.

[Blair]

Well the school issue can only be dealt with if you get rid of the Religious part. I really don't see how a children's parent can deny them access to a vaccination, even if they claim it's a religious view.

Looking at examples, it appears more widespread to crack down on them. I mean as clinical as it is the countries that do best in these areas are the ones who take a more aggressive approach to giving vaccines- I think public health should be the backbone of the nation

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I don't know about religious minorities in Australia, but here the ones that object to vaccination on religious grounds also tend to not use public schools. Eliminating religious exemptions would do less to help children and more to abrogate religious freedom in Atlasia.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I personally don't believe that religious views trump public health and safety. This anti-vaccination nonsense has caused the first significant measles outbreaks in decades.

We are giving too much leeway for personal objections and that includes religious one.

[Blair]

  Eliminating religious exemptions would do less to help children and more to abrogate religious freedom in Atlasia.

That's simply false, you can't really think that a child missing out on a vaccination is better than a child upsetting his parents religious belief.

Is there actually a biblical verse that says 'thou shall not get vaccinated'

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

     I don't know about religious minorities in Australia, but here the ones that object to vaccination on religious grounds also tend to not use public schools. Eliminating religious exemptions would do less to help children and more to abrogate religious freedom in Atlasia.

Should the parents' ability to deny their kids a part of proper medical care be considered a "religious freedom"? For me it's imposing their views on another person (the child) that can't decide for herself or himself.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Anyway, gentlemen, you're naturally free to oppose an amendment.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I'm not going to press this point. These people do not send their children to public schools and will continue to not vaccinate their children. There is no actual point to this discussion. I will propose this amendment:

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I don't think there are any other laws, but the point is that this should be about public health and this makes that point.

[Blair]

Kal, is this amendment friendly or hostile?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

PiT does have point about the practical side of "public school/non-public school" system.

Friendly.

[bore]

Yeah, I'm not going to press this point too much, because the numbers involved are tiny, and as pit says those people won't be going to public schools. I'll just emphasise that it's because the number involved were so tiny that I was fine with allowing an exception, as all but 2 states do.

Regarding the rest of the bill I obviously support it.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I guess that without objections the amendment is adopted?

[Blair]

Amendment has been adopted

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am pretty satisfied with the text as it is now. Unless there are any remaining concerns we can probably proceed forward.

Public school means that certain precautions are necessary to protect the public as such an aggregation of students in place creates the opportunity for diseases to be spread and therefore such should be prevented or at very least the chances of such spreading need to be reduced and vaccinations are a critical aspect of doing that, along with sanitation and good hygiene.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I am satisfied as well.  I might have been satisfied with a clause for any non-homeschooling environment.  Parochial kids need vaccinations too...but that opens a can of worms and people would go all churchy on our butts.

[Senator Cris]

I'm ok with the text as it stands and I'm ready for a final vote on this.

[Blair]

I second the motion for a final vote, any objections?

[Boston Bread]

I support a final vote, and I'll vote for the act.