looks like Tsipras has folded
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  looks like Tsipras has folded
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Miamiu1027
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« on: July 09, 2015, 04:29:52 PM »

he should fcking resign, fcking pig.  agrees to $13B in budget cuts -- more than were voted on in the referendum.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/09/greece-debt-crisis-athens-accepts-harsh-austerity-as-bailout-deal-nears

there is a "left bloc" within Syriza that may be able to rally forces to reject this package in Parliament.

Panagiotis Lafazanis, the energy minister and influential hard-leftist, who on Wednesday welcomed a deal for a new €2bn gas pipeline from Russia, has ruled out a new tough austerity package.

Lafazanis represents around 70 Syriza MPs who have previously taken a hard line against further austerity measures and could yet wreck any top-level agreement.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2015, 04:30:54 PM »

Game theory
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2015, 04:34:56 PM »


Game theory resigned, it wasn't funny anyway.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2015, 04:41:02 PM »

they might have given him a 10% haircut-without-calling-it-a-haircut in order to push this garbage through.  how does he even walk back into parliament with this garbage in his hand?  if he doesn't want to do this he should resign and go on speaking tours, talking about "how we did it." 

resign, hand power to the Syriza left, let them reset the clocks to zero.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2015, 04:58:54 PM »

The impression I got from reading Tsipras profiles in January that he sounded pragmatic if necessary, but not necessarily pragmatic. Seems about right.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2015, 05:03:16 PM »

The impression I got from reading Tsipras profiles in January that he sounded pragmatic if necessary, but not necessarily pragmatic. Seems about right.

he was naive enough to think that by draping himself in a red flag he'd scare the creditors into allowing him to run a nice social democracy in Greece.  Yanis acted like a crazy man and threatened to beat people up -- people who believed he could beat them up.  but in the end it has all been an act.  there are literally only hours left for the Syriza project and the hope it has offered the international left: and it turns on Greek parliament's rejection of this BULLsh**t that Tsipras is carrying home.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2015, 05:18:31 PM »

inb4 half of Tsipras's caucus defects to ANTARSYA
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ag
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2015, 05:56:46 PM »


 let them reset the clocks to zero.

If it were the matter of resetting the clocks to zero, it would have been ok. Unfortunately, it seems like it would be smthg around 1200 BC.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2015, 06:08:15 PM »

resign, hand power to the Syriza left, let them reset the clocks to zero.



?
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ag
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2015, 06:11:43 PM »

resign, hand power to the Syriza left, let them reset the clocks to zero.



?

Good one.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2015, 06:22:03 PM »

the French did it too.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2015, 06:23:57 PM »

here are the details of the deal.  a total collapse of Syriza's position, an obliteration.

http://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/story/976680/the-greek-reform-proposals

parliament still has to ratify it.  it will face serious opposition from within Syriza and, conceivably, from the electorate that voted 61% to reject a 'better' deal 4 days ago.
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jfern
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2015, 06:34:03 PM »

The neoliberals have exacted their punishment of Greece for the crime of thinking that they have some control of their own country's economy.
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Nhoj
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2015, 06:44:28 PM »

KKE has been proven right as usual.
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ag
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2015, 06:51:44 PM »

Well, they tried acting mad - and it did not work. Tsakolotos is a better game theorist Smiley
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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2015, 07:56:42 PM »

As I said in the thread in International Elections: Oh for Christ's sake.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2015, 08:01:00 PM »

This confirms it: Tsipras was always doomed to failure.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2015, 08:21:16 PM »

This confirms it: Tsipras was always doomed to failure.

they needed to be planning from day 1 on what to do if we give this all up.  they obviously weren't doing that.  their naivete about what negotiations would actually be like is inconceivable.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2015, 08:38:59 PM »
« Edited: July 09, 2015, 08:40:43 PM by Governor Simfan34 »


Alas- the French went to one. They went to something. The Khmer Rouge went to nothing.

I enjoy this, from a safe distance across the Atlantic. Tsipras received a resounding mandate rejecting the EU's demands. He's taken this mandate and gone ahead with the exact opposite. Perhaps there is truth to the claims that he was secretly hoping for a "NAI" vote.

Let's not get too excited, though. Last Monday everyone was hopeful- but that came to naught.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2015, 09:08:39 PM »

I mean, feel free to party, Austerians.  looks like you won.  I won't think the less of you.
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jfern
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« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2015, 09:15:39 PM »

When even a country is unable to stand up to the bankers, it's really time to reign their powers in. Too bad the TISA agreement being negotiated between the US, EU, and some other countries would make the bankers even less regulated and more powerful.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2015, 09:18:48 PM »

the consensus is that Tsipras-loyal Syriza MPs will join with PASOK/ND MPs to ratify it.  of course, if Tsipras can't garner "a majority of the majority" of Syriza MPs, they're liable to flush the government there and then before the vote happens -- anything to stop it from going through.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2015, 09:21:47 PM »

also, if you haven't noticed, Syriza got a commitment from the creditors to look at debt restructuring in 2022.  Greece will be a prune by 2022.
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rob in cal
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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2015, 12:31:17 AM »

   I think it would be hilarious if the votes of Golden Dawn MP's are decisive in defeating the Tsipras govt proposals.  How about Golden Dawn, ANEL, KKE and the heart of the Syriza bloc against the Troika and the bankers, an intriguing political lineup.
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The Last Northerner
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« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2015, 01:18:13 AM »

   I think it would be hilarious if the votes of Golden Dawn MP's are decisive in defeating the Tsipras govt proposals.  How about Golden Dawn, ANEL, KKE and the heart of the Syriza bloc against the Troika and the bankers, an intriguing political lineup.

I don't see the numbers adding up. The best case scenerio save defectors would be - 70 Left-SYRIZAs + 17 XA + 15 KKE + 13 ANEL.  That's 115 out of the 300 MPs. I'm honestly suprised at Tspiras' actions.

The real question is who the anti-EU/austerity buck will pass to. A break-away SYRIZA left? An ANEL resurgence? Hopefully not Golden Dawn or the Communists...

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