looks like Tsipras has folded

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

of course, if Tsipras can't garner "a majority of the majority" of Syriza MPs, they're liable to flush the government there and then before the vote happens -- anything to stop it from going through.

That's what I'm hoping for, assuming Tsipras doesn't just go into coalition with ND and PASOK to stay in power.

[Beet]

I had always suspected this would happen, but that referendum was the most jaw-droppingly stupid stunt I have ever seen in politics. You make a point of calling a referendum when no one expected you to do so, the side you publically campaigned on won resoundingly, and a few days later you do exactly the opposite of both the referendum result and your own stated position. Talk about loss of dignity. No one in the EU could have humiliated Tsipiras as bad as he did to himself.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I had always suspected this would happen, but that referendum was the most jaw-droppingly stupid stunt I have ever seen in politics. You make a point of calling a referendum when no one expected you to do so, the side you publically campaigned on won resoundingly, and a few days later you do exactly the opposite of both the referendum result and your own stated position. Talk about loss of dignity. No one in the EU could have humiliated Tsipiras as bad as he did to himself.

True, he shouldn't have capitulated. This makes even Obama's 2011 capitulation on the debt ceiling not look too bad.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Oh you guys!

Tsipras is not a magician. As much as you wish it, he can't just swish a wand around and all of a sudden turn fantasy into reality. The overwhelming majority of EU governments support the current cause of affairs, and Tsipras wasn't all of a sudden going to turn the minds of all those savvy politicians.

He always had just two roads he could take. He could either work with the creditors or he could leave the Euro. The ideas that he'd manage to get bailed out by Russia, or that the CJEU would declare it illegal for Greece to leave the Euro has always been smokes and mirrors.

Faced with the stark reality of either leaving the common currency or get a deal with the creditors, he clearly decided that a deal was the thing that would hurt the country least. Now from the anti-austerity perspective the deal isn't all as terrible as you make it out to be, it says that there has to be debt write-downs, something the creditors might actually agree to considering what Tsipras is willing to to restructure and save more than they initially asked for. Now I hope that there is still enough good will between Greece and Germany for this to actually amount to something.





 

[TNF]

KKE has been proven right as usual.

At least in this instance. The minute that Syriza decided it was going to manage Greek capitalism rather than end it is the minute that this path was inevitable. Just more evidence that reformism, even in the most 'revolutionary' of guises, is a dead end.

[seb_pard]

http://en.protothema.gr/syriza-hardliners-critical-of-tsipras-but-will-support-him-pic-of-letter/

[ag]

When even a country is unable to stand up to the bankers, it's really time to reign their powers in. Too bad the TISA agreement being negotiated between the US, EU, and some other countries would make the bankers even less regulated and more powerful.

Bankers have very little to do with this. It is one country against 18.

[ag]

that referendum was the most jaw-droppingly stupid stunt I have ever seen in politics.

hard to argue otherwise

[ag]

I had always suspected this would happen, but that referendum was the most jaw-droppingly stupid stunt I have ever seen in politics. You make a point of calling a referendum when no one expected you to do so, the side you publically campaigned on won resoundingly, and a few days later you do exactly the opposite of both the referendum result and your own stated position. Talk about loss of dignity. No one in the EU could have humiliated Tsipiras as bad as he did to himself.

True, he shouldn't have capitulated.

Yeah, he should have gotten hold of a big nuke and exploded it in the middle of Athens instead. Would have done less damage to the Greek people than continuing acting mad, as they have been.

[ag]

KKE has been proven right as usual.

At least in this instance. The minute that Syriza decided it was going to manage Greek capitalism rather than end it is the minute that this path was inevitable. Just more evidence that reformism, even in the most 'revolutionary' of guises, is a dead end.

Well, the moment it turned out Tsipras was unwilling to kill his grandma, he was a traitor, of course.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I've said it before: Greece needs a badass Dom Mintoff figure to run around allying and double-crossing everyone in sight for the benefit of his country. If you're going to play nationalism, you might as well do it right.

[Beet]

When even a country is unable to stand up to the bankers, it's really time to reign their powers in. Too bad the TISA agreement being negotiated between the US, EU, and some other countries would make the bankers even less regulated and more powerful.

Bankers have very little to do with this. It is one country against 18.

A part of me wanted to see Merkel call a referendum in Germany to find out if Germany is a nation of bankers.

[ag]

When even a country is unable to stand up to the bankers, it's really time to reign their powers in. Too bad the TISA agreement being negotiated between the US, EU, and some other countries would make the bankers even less regulated and more powerful.

Bankers have very little to do with this. It is one country against 18.

A part of me wanted to see Merkel call a referendum in Germany to find out if Germany is a nation of bankers.

Germany does not do referendums. For a reason

[ingemann]

I've said it before: Greece needs a badass Dom Mintoff figure to run around allying and double-crossing everyone in sight for the benefit of his country. If you're going to play nationalism, you might as well do it right.

The Greek problem are that no one are willing or can afford to give them what EU gives them, and here I'm not thinking about loans and the Euro, but just things like annual transfers of EU funds (to development) or the Schengen Agrement. They can try play the Russians against EU, but Russia can't really afford Greece, and Russia, EU and Greece all know this. That limits the Greek ability to doublecross anybody. It's the same problem Russia have in Ukraine, what EU offer (access to European markets, development help, development of civil society and last of all EU membership) will to any time be better for the population than the Russian bribes, which are why Russia need to keep its clients in place with military force and cheap raw materials.

[ingemann]

I mean, feel free to party, Austerians.  looks like you won.  I won't think the less of you.

Why should they party? They knew they was going to win from the start. I think instead we all should congratulate the Greeks for finally deciding to limit the damage to Greece.

[© tweed]

I mean, feel free to party, Austerians.  looks like you won.  I won't think the less of you.

Why should they party? They knew they was going to win from the start. I think instead we all should congratulate the Greeks for finally deciding to limit the damage to Greece.

no they did not.  some of them may be so enured to the idea that their sh**t stinks that they think they can never lose, that finance capital will endure forever -- it won't.

post-Oxi, the Syriza "Left Platform" drew up a Grexit plan which would have made some aggressive changes to the structure of the state -- nationalizing banks, for instance.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/07/tsipras-euro-debt-default-grexit/


fast forward to 2018: the Hellenic Republic has its hands long washed of the Euro and Syriza maintains *popular support.  movements spring up in Spain, Italy in attempt to do the same maneuver.  

there's hardly any guarantee that would have been successful, but it might have been.  unfortunately, Syriza's leadership (from Tsipras to Yanis to Euclid) would never consider it.  they don't have Lenin's set of balls, let's just say.

today, most "left platform" MPs are voting for perpetual debt peonage.  one of them even fcking cried on TV.

[ingemann]

I mean, feel free to party, Austerians.  looks like you won.  I won't think the less of you.

Why should they party? They knew they was going to win from the start. I think instead we all should congratulate the Greeks for finally deciding to limit the damage to Greece.

no they did not.  some of them may be so enured to the idea that their sh**t stinks that they think they can never lose, that finance capital will endure forever -- it won't.

post-Oxi, the Syriza "Left Platform" drew up a Grexit plan which would have made some aggressive changes to the structure of the state -- nationalizing banks, for instance.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/07/tsipras-euro-debt-default-grexit/


fast forward to 2018: the Hellenic Republic has its hands long washed of the Euro and Syriza maintains *popular support.  movements spring up in Spain, Italy in attempt to do the same maneuver.  

there's hardly any guarantee that would have been successful, but it might have been.  unfortunately, Syriza's leadership (from Tsipras to Yanis to Euclid) would never consider it.  they don't have Lenin's set of balls, let's just say.

today, most "left platform" MPs are voting for perpetual debt peonage.  one of them even fcking cried on TV.

Sad that it wasn't the banks Syriza fought against but 18 other EU countries, where Greece only threat was that they could create a new financial crisis by taking their creditors down with them. Of course most of the debt had more or less been taken over by those 18 countries plus ECB and IMF, and Greece was and is not able to take them down with them, which everyone with a brain knew except for a bunch of newly elected amateur politicians in Greece and their pet narcissistic economist. The old Greek government knew it, which was why they didn't take this battle.

[ag]

I mean, feel free to party, Austerians.  looks like you won.  I won't think the less of you.

Why should they party? They knew they was going to win from the start. I think instead we all should congratulate the Greeks for finally deciding to limit the damage to Greece.

no they did not.  some of them may be so enured to the idea that their sh**t stinks that they think they can never lose, that finance capital will endure forever -- it won't.

post-Oxi, the Syriza "Left Platform" drew up a Grexit plan which would have made some aggressive changes to the structure of the state -- nationalizing banks, for instance.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/07/tsipras-euro-debt-default-grexit/


fast forward to 2018: the Hellenic Republic has its hands long washed of the Euro and Syriza maintains *popular support.  movements spring up in Spain, Italy in attempt to do the same maneuver.  

there's hardly any guarantee that would have been successful, but it might have been.  unfortunately, Syriza's leadership (from Tsipras to Yanis to Euclid) would never consider it.  they don't have Lenin's set of balls, let's just say.

today, most "left platform" MPs are voting for perpetual debt peonage.  one of them even fcking cried on TV.

The reason they did not do this is that they realized, that had they done it, the much more likely news in 2018 would have been the EU definitevely expelling The State of Greece in retaliation for the Greek military government executing national traitors Tsipras and Varufakis.

[© tweed]

I mean, feel free to party, Austerians.  looks like you won.  I won't think the less of you.

Why should they party? They knew they was going to win from the start. I think instead we all should congratulate the Greeks for finally deciding to limit the damage to Greece.

no they did not.  some of them may be so enured to the idea that their sh**t stinks that they think they can never lose, that finance capital will endure forever -- it won't.

post-Oxi, the Syriza "Left Platform" drew up a Grexit plan which would have made some aggressive changes to the structure of the state -- nationalizing banks, for instance.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/07/tsipras-euro-debt-default-grexit/


fast forward to 2018: the Hellenic Republic has its hands long washed of the Euro and Syriza maintains *popular support.  movements spring up in Spain, Italy in attempt to do the same maneuver.  

there's hardly any guarantee that would have been successful, but it might have been.  unfortunately, Syriza's leadership (from Tsipras to Yanis to Euclid) would never consider it.  they don't have Lenin's set of balls, let's just say.

today, most "left platform" MPs are voting for perpetual debt peonage.  one of them even fcking cried on TV.

The reason they did not do this is that they realized, that had they done it, the much more likely news in 2018 would have been the EU definitevely expelling The State of Greece in retaliation for the Greek military government executing national traitors Tsipras and Varufakis.

non-Euro Syriza government would have long been expelled dude.  you are right that the leaders would be risking their lives for the chance at being a historic figure.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Tsipras was (is) in an impossible position. I'm not sure if he's handled things in the best way, but then I'm not sure if there even is a best way by this point.

[ag]

non-Euro Syriza government would have long been expelled dude.  you are right that the leaders would be risking their lives for the chance at being a historic figure.

There would be no risk involved, whatsoever. It would have been a near guarantee. As would be a military dictatorship for Greece - I doubt Greece would tolerate well the economic collapse that you are promoting.

[Silent Hunter]

Tsipras was (is) in an impossible position. I'm not sure if he's handled things in the best way, but then I'm not sure if there even is a best way by this point.

Agree; bringing your country that close to economic collapse then essentially agreeing to the same deal isn't very successful in anyone's book.

[© tweed]

key news today is Eurogroup may not accept the deal.  rumor is Merkel wants to reject it and the French want to accept it.  the Germans smell Tsipras' weakness and are going for the full out kill.

Schauble is even talking some nonsense about a "temporary 5 year Grexit"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11733260/Greece-news-live-Germans-tout-plans-for-five-year-temporary-Grexit-after-Europeans-warn-reforms-are-too-little-too-late.html

[Hydera]

key news today is Eurogroup may not accept the deal.  rumor is Merkel wants to reject it and the French want to accept it.  the Germans smell Tsipras' weakness and are going for the full out kill.

Schauble is even talking some nonsense about a "temporary 5 year Grexit"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11733260/Greece-news-live-Germans-tout-plans-for-five-year-temporary-Grexit-after-Europeans-warn-reforms-are-too-little-too-late.html

Instead of a five year exit they should get a permanent exit from the euro currency.

Also there needs to be a way to force their bond yields to never go below 15% for the next 10 years so they can't think they can just borrow themselves to growth.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Of all the absurd suggestions so far "five year sabbatical" is the most ridiculous.

If Greece is out, it's hard to see how it can get back 'in'.