Webb: Democratic Party has moved "way far to the left"
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  Webb: Democratic Party has moved "way far to the left"
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Author Topic: Webb: Democratic Party has moved "way far to the left"  (Read 5833 times)
Mr. Morden
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« on: July 12, 2015, 11:07:15 AM »

From Fox News Sundary:

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Citizen (The) Doctor
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2015, 11:11:12 AM »

lol

On a side note, crafting a right-wing populist message is quite the novelty these days.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2015, 11:22:28 AM »

It's not so much that the Democratic Party has moved left as that the right wing of the Democratic Party has been pretty thoroughly wiped out (they're the ones who lost their seats in the GOP waves, for the most part) so what's left feels further left even though it isn't. I don't think it's not so much that a Heath Shuler wouldn't be welcomed in the Democratic Party anymore as that a Heath Shuler couldn't get elected in North Carolina anymore, for example.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2015, 11:46:47 AM »

What The Mikado said.

Also, "most political analysts" are hacks.
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2015, 11:59:44 AM »

lol

On a side note, crafting a right-wing populist message is quite the novelty these days.

1) How is his message "right-wing," other than the rationale that you don't appreciate his comments and you're not "right-wing."

2) If anything, cute left-wing populism like cheerleading for Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren is the novelty now.
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dudeabides
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2015, 12:03:08 PM »

It's not so much that the Democratic Party has moved left as that the right wing of the Democratic Party has been pretty thoroughly wiped out (they're the ones who lost their seats in the GOP waves, for the most part) so what's left feels further left even though it isn't. I don't think it's not so much that a Heath Shuler wouldn't be welcomed in the Democratic Party anymore as that a Heath Shuler couldn't get elected in North Carolina anymore, for example.

Some red state Democrats were defeated, yes. But, even Democrats in the U.S. Senate and Congress who were once considered moderates now have voted the party line. When Kristen Gillibrand was in congress, she was considered a moderate who was a defender of the second amendment. Not anymore. Mark Warner was considered a moderate while he was Governor of Virginia, but he now has voted for President Obama's liberal agenda such as Obamacare, the stimulus, and Dodd-Frank. Democrats kicked Joe Lieberman, who they had nominated for Vice President, out of the party because he took a responsible position on Iraq.

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Indy Texas
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2015, 12:03:36 PM »

Sanders and Webb can serve as Hillary's rhetorical bookends.

During the primaries, she can point to Jim Webb and say that she's the real liberal compared to him.

During the general election, she can go to moderate swing state voters and say, "When Bernie Sanders tried to push his left-wing agenda on the Democratic Party, I stood up and said no way."
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2015, 12:06:49 PM »

It's not so much that the Democratic Party has moved left as that the right wing of the Democratic Party has been pretty thoroughly wiped out (they're the ones who lost their seats in the GOP waves, for the most part) so what's left feels further left even though it isn't. I don't think it's not so much that a Heath Shuler wouldn't be welcomed in the Democratic Party anymore as that a Heath Shuler couldn't get elected in North Carolina anymore, for example.

Some red state Democrats were defeated, yes. But, even Democrats in the U.S. Senate and Congress who were once considered moderates now have voted the party line. When Kristen Gillibrand was in congress, she was considered a moderate who was a defender of the second amendment. Not anymore. Mark Warner was considered a moderate while he was Governor of Virginia, but he now has voted for President Obama's liberal agenda such as Obamacare, the stimulus, and Dodd-Frank. Democrats kicked Joe Lieberman, who they had nominated for Vice President, out of the party because he took a responsible position on Iraq.



Gillibrand went from representing a Republican-leaning Upstate congressional district to holding statewide office in a state that, as a whole, is very Democratic and liberal. If she didn't change the way she voted, she wouldn't be able to keep her job and wouldn't be representing her constituents.

As for Warner, it's far easier for a governor to be a moderate, especially when dealing with a Legislature controlled by the opposite party, than it is to be a centrist US Senator in the 21st century.

Joe Lieberman is a warmongering neo-con who wanted to enable Bush to continue a failed war in Iraq. Connecticut Democrats opposed the war. Joe Lieberman supported it. Why is it such a shock that they wouldn't want him to be their nominee?
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dudeabides
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2015, 12:11:37 PM »

It's not so much that the Democratic Party has moved left as that the right wing of the Democratic Party has been pretty thoroughly wiped out (they're the ones who lost their seats in the GOP waves, for the most part) so what's left feels further left even though it isn't. I don't think it's not so much that a Heath Shuler wouldn't be welcomed in the Democratic Party anymore as that a Heath Shuler couldn't get elected in North Carolina anymore, for example.

Some red state Democrats were defeated, yes. But, even Democrats in the U.S. Senate and Congress who were once considered moderates now have voted the party line. When Kristen Gillibrand was in congress, she was considered a moderate who was a defender of the second amendment. Not anymore. Mark Warner was considered a moderate while he was Governor of Virginia, but he now has voted for President Obama's liberal agenda such as Obamacare, the stimulus, and Dodd-Frank. Democrats kicked Joe Lieberman, who they had nominated for Vice President, out of the party because he took a responsible position on Iraq.



Gillibrand went from representing a Republican-leaning Upstate congressional district to holding statewide office in a state that, as a whole, is very Democratic and liberal. If she didn't change the way she voted, she wouldn't be able to keep her job and wouldn't be representing her constituents.

As for Warner, it's far easier for a governor to be a moderate, especially when dealing with a Legislature controlled by the opposite party, than it is to be a centrist US Senator in the 21st century.

Joe Lieberman is a warmongering neo-con who wanted to enable Bush to continue a failed war in Iraq. Connecticut Democrats opposed the war. Joe Lieberman supported it. Why is it such a shock that they wouldn't want him to be their nominee?

So another words, Gillibrand is a fraud?

Warner did not have to vote for Obamacare, the stimulus, or Dodd-Frank. He didn't have to support this President's failed economic agenda to win in Virginia. Joe Manchin ran for office opposing Obamacare in West Virginia and he won decisive victories (10 points in 2010, 21 points in 2012). Manchin had also served as a Governor.

Exactly my point, Democrats didn't support a U.S. Senator who didn't want to leave Iraq prematurely because he took an adult position as his opponent, who by the way lost the general election by 10 points, told people what they wanted to hear.
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Blair
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2015, 12:19:01 PM »


Democrats kicked Joe Lieberman, who they had nominated for Vice President, out of the party because he took a responsible position on Iraq.



No, they kicked him out because he wanted to bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2015, 12:20:25 PM »

Lieberman endorsed John McCain in 2008, FWIW.
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Blair
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2015, 12:23:14 PM »

And please, Mary Landrieu voted for Obamacare after taking a fat bribe, along with Ben Nelson. It's hardly shocking that Democrats are going to vote for health care reform that Lincoln Chafee and Bob Dole  supported  in 1993
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2015, 12:56:03 PM »

I don't know about 'way far', but the Democratic Party has moved left significantly during the Obama years. The Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren's of the world wouldn't be as hot as they are if it didn't get pushed left by the 'progressive' movement. There's no doubt about that.
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Thunderbird is the word
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2015, 01:27:11 PM »

The way that we define left and right in regards to the Democratic Party is honestly very loaded. Democrats have only moved to the left on social issues but that in and of itself masks the fact that they've stopped even competing for working class white voters because labor has lost its influence in the Democratic Party and they see race baiting as the only way to appeal to those voters. Aside from abortion and gay marriage there really isn't a whole lot of difference between a pro Wall Street New York area Democrat and the southern blue dogs.
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136or142
Adam T
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2015, 01:42:03 PM »
« Edited: July 12, 2015, 01:43:58 PM by Adam T »

 
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Voting for Obamacare, the stimulus and Dodd-Frank were the correct, responsible decisions.

I don't know whether your comment on Iraq is meant as satire or not.

You call yourself 'dudeabides' but you clearly have much more in common with Walter Sobchak, though intellectually you may be closer to Donny Kerabatsos.  

I don't know why any Dumbya II supporter would want to be associated with such a hippy film either though Jeb is quite similar to the real Big Lebowski.
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RFayette
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« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2015, 01:52:43 PM »

Sanders and Webb can serve as Hillary's rhetorical bookends.

During the primaries, she can point to Jim Webb and say that she's the real liberal compared to him.

During the general election, she can go to moderate swing state voters and say, "When Bernie Sanders tried to push his left-wing agenda on the Democratic Party, I stood up and said no way."

You may be right with Webb, but I highly doubt Clinton will attack Sanders at all in the general or the primaries from the right.  During the primaries, she'd try to show issues she's more "liberal" on (guns, immigration) and during the general she'd still aim to make sure all the Sanders voters would support her.
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Likely Voter
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« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2015, 02:27:20 PM »

Webb's campaign will reveal just how many conservative white male Dixiecrats are left in the party, but there certainly aren't any left in Congress and very few even left in state legislatures. It's possible he can have an impact in some states, notably South Carolina. Let's see how well he does in the new PPP Virginia poll.
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jfern
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« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2015, 04:22:09 PM »

Gosh, so they're slightly more liberal than a Reagan administration official wants? Oh noes.
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Beet
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« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2015, 04:29:19 PM »

So Jim Webb won't be supporting Bernie Sanders?
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2015, 04:38:44 PM »

Haha, we need to bring working people back into the party by embracing neo-liberalism.
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dudeabides
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« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2015, 10:15:32 PM »


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Voting for Obamacare, the stimulus and Dodd-Frank were the correct, responsible decisions.

I don't know whether your comment on Iraq is meant as satire or not.

You call yourself 'dudeabides' but you clearly have much more in common with Walter Sobchak, though intellectually you may be closer to Donny Kerabatsos.  

I don't know why any Dumbya II supporter would want to be associated with such a hippy film either though Jeb is quite similar to the real Big Lebowski.

Voting for Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, and the stimulus were the wrong decisions. They were decisions that have caused great economic pain for small and medium sized businesses as well as middle and lower income Americans.

As for Iraq, the responsible position by 2006 was not withdrawal prematurely.

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Donerail
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« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2015, 10:45:21 PM »

"Former Reagan administration official runs to be Democratic presidential nomination, is shocked party is well to the left of him."
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Pyro
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« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2015, 11:28:26 PM »

Sorry Jim Webb that the Democrats haven't literally wanked off Brian Moynihan and John Stumpf.
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Senate Minority Leader Lord Voldemort
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« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2015, 01:18:39 AM »


Quote
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Voting for Obamacare, the stimulus and Dodd-Frank were the correct, responsible decisions.

I don't know whether your comment on Iraq is meant as satire or not.

You call yourself 'dudeabides' but you clearly have much more in common with Walter Sobchak, though intellectually you may be closer to Donny Kerabatsos.  

I don't know why any Dumbya II supporter would want to be associated with such a hippy film either though Jeb is quite similar to the real Big Lebowski.

Voting for Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, and the stimulus were the wrong decisions. They were decisions that have caused great economic pain for small and medium sized businesses as well as middle and lower income Americans.

As for Iraq, the responsible position by 2006 was not withdrawal prematurely.



As per usual, Republicans whine and speak in vague generalities about Democratic attempts to govern a country, while simultaneously not proposing any specific or constructive policy proposals in the past six and a half years. Not even their Presidential ticket did.
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136or142
Adam T
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« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2015, 03:06:51 AM »


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1.Stimulus: https://www.economy.com/dismal/analysis/datapoints/249244/Economists-Agree-The-Stimulus-Worked/

2.Dodd-Frank has weaknesses which need to be corrected, but, in general, it is a step in the right direction to preventing more financial breakdowns.  It's the Republican attempts to weaken Dodd-Frank to reopen things up for the bankers who gamble with other people's money that has the potential to hurt middle and lower income Americans.

3.Obamacare, there are some stories of people who have had their insurance rise significantly or who have lost their doctor, and some of these are likely true, and a subset of them likely were due to Obamacare, but all the polls and research clearly show that there are vastly more people, including the middle and lower income people you profess to care about, who have been helped by Obamacare.

Other than some small banks and credit unions who have been harmed by the Dodd-Frank regulations, I fail to see how any small or medium sized business has been harmed by any of these things.  In the case of the stimulus, the United States was almost certainly saved from going into a much deeper recession if not a serious depression, though TARP and quantitative easing likely played a much greater roll in preventing those things than the stimulus.

I actually agree with you on the Iraq War vote in 2006.  Though in hindsight, it's pretty clear that it was the bribing of the various factions in Iraq that ended the sectarian violence at that time, and not the surge.
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