Future of the Ulster Unionist Party

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

I can't say I can shed any tears for the demise of the UUP. Too closely associated with the Conservative Party for my liking

Being a unionist, I'd have had little option but not to vote for the DUP

So, let me get this straight.... you would support a nutty extremist party that opposes peace over a moderate party that supports and is responsible for peace in Northern Island?

I'm a partisan bastard myself, but I'd vote Democrat anyday over Socialist, Constitution, or any other nutjob party over here.  You need to get a reality check on your hatred for Conservatives in the U.K. and Republicans in the U.S.

[Democratic Hawk]

I can't say I can shed any tears for the demise of the UUP. Too closely associated with the Conservative Party for my liking

Being a unionist, I'd have had little option but not to vote for the DUP

So, let me get this straight.... you would support a nutty extremist party that opposes peace over a moderate party that supports and is responsible for peace in Northern Island?

I'm a partisan bastard myself, but I'd vote Democrat anyday over Socialist, Constitution, or any other nutjob party over here.  You need to get a reality check on your hatred for Conservatives in the U.K. and Republicans in the U.S.

I think the term 'hatred' is a bit strong. I don't hate Conservatives or Republicans. Granted I do have some antipathy towards the Conservative Party and the GOP - but it's a long way from hatred. In fact, I have supported GWB to the hilt as far as Iraq goes

It's hardly my fault that the UUP have lost the support and confidence of the unionist population - perhaps people felt that Trimble had gone soft on SF and the IRA. I think in the long run a sea of moderate change will sweep the DUP - the 'war horse' ain't gonna lead it for ever.  Most people, to my knowledge, whether Catholic or Protestant; nationalist/republican or unionist want peace - and that's the reality

Dave

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There's been some interesting council results; Lord Maginnis has lost his seat on Dungannon DC (which he'd held for 20 years) and the APNI have ousted a Shinner in the ward where Robert McCartney was murdered.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Former Mayor of Derry, Gerry O'hEara (SF) has lost his seat on Derry City Council

[Јas]

Results: Seats              Vote Share
DUP    182 (+52)           29.6% (+8.2)
SF       126 (+18)           23.2% (+2.7)   
UUP    115 (-40)            18%    (-5.2)   
SDLP   101 (-16)            17.4% (-1.9)   
Alliance 30 (+2)             5%      (-0.2)       
Green     3 (+3)              0.8%   (Unchanged)     
PUP        2 (-2)               0.7%   (-0.9)     
UUC        2 (+2)             0.3%    (Unchanged)       
NRA        1 (+1)              0.3%    (+0.1)   
Others   0 (-3)               0.8%    (-0.9)   

UUC = United Unionist Coalition
NRA = Newtownabbey Ratepayers Association

[patrick1]

Is it me or does Alliance appear to be more of the Catholic vote than in years past?  Or at  least a bigger percentage Catholic v Protestant breakdown.

I suppose it is because Catholics have many of the leadership positions in the party.

[britishstudent]

i am utterly amazed at the complete lack of knowledge of northern ireland politics that is demonstarted on this board! You guys really need to get your facts straight!

i especially think the comments about the dup are completely out of order. they refuse to take part in a government with known terrorists that have not decomissioned their weapons. Would you like Osama bin Laden in your congress? because it is the same thing! the omagh bomb killed 29 people and two unborn babies, that was our september 11th, a huge number of people, never mind the other 2000 people killed by the ira over the past thirty years. now they have decided to go inot governemnt? the dup have made it clear that they will not go into governemnt untill there is clear evidence that their has been decommissioning, is that really too much to ask?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

First off, welcome to the forum. I'm the moderator of the International Elections board and I generally like to keep things fairly calm and reasonably civil.
You from Northern Ireland then?

i especially think the comments about the dup are completely out of order. they refuse to take part in a government with known terrorists that have not decomissioned their weapons.

Well the IRA have decommisioned their weapons now (althought to be fair they hadn't at the time of the elections) so that line of arguement is no longer relavent.

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The Omagh bombings were commited by a group of lunatics who had broken away from the IRA over the ceasefire, the bombings were not commited by the IRA itself.

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Far too many people were killed by both sides during the troubles. Those days are over now (which is a great thing).

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I would say that there has been clear evidence for decommisioning (unless a former Canadian General and a respected Methodist Minister are somehow on the IRA's payroll) and that the DUP's complaints have more to do with electoral politics than anything else, but you are of course entitled to your own opinion.

[britishstudent]

thanks for the welcome. i would agree with the points you have made, certainly things have chnaged in the last six months, but i am defending the dup's position over the past 8 years. The Good Friday agreement was a disaster, as people have come to realise, and their are certain aspects which are just unacceptable, and the unionist people have voted for the dup because of their opposition to the dup. Please note that they are not opposed to peace, but to an unfair agreement.
They can be classified as extreme, because they believe in a cause passionately, but hery are not violent!!

Paisley is represented in the media as a devil, he really isnt, he is a good working MP, who attends to the needs of all his constiuents, whether protestant, catholic or australian, and this is seen when a substantial number of catholics voted for him over the past 30 years. Paisley is not anti catholic, but anti catholism, what he believes to be the wrong teachings of the catholic church

[Јas]

i am utterly amazed at the complete lack of knowledge of northern ireland politics that is demonstarted on this board! You guys really need to get your facts straight!

i especially think the comments about the dup are completely out of order. they refuse to take part in a government with known terrorists that have not decomissioned their weapons. Would you like Osama bin Laden in your congress? because it is the same thing! the omagh bomb killed 29 people and two unborn babies, that was our september 11th, a huge number of people, never mind the other 2000 people killed by the ira over the past thirty years. now they have decided to go inot governemnt? the dup have made it clear that they will not go into governemnt untill there is clear evidence that their has been decommissioning, is that really too much to ask?

I would also like to welcome you to the board, britishstudent. Though immediately denegrating the collective knowledge of board members is not condusive to calm and rational discussion. I would also say that then going on to make factually incorrect inferences does not help build up your own credibility after such attacks.

The IRA have now decommissioned their weapons, this has been accepted by the British and Irish governments, moderate unionists, the independent monitoring commission, even loyalist paramilitaries. The DUP stands alone in its skepticism here.

It should also be noted that it was the Real IRA not the provisionals who carried out and accepted responsibility for the atrocity in Omagh. Nobody expects the DUP to sit in government with the Real IRA's political allies. Nobody places culpability for Omagh with the provisionals, including the DUP.

thanks for the welcome. i would agree with the points you have made, certainly things have chnaged in the last six months, but i am defending the dup's position over the past 8 years. The Good Friday agreement was a disaster, as people have come to realise, and their are certain aspects which are just unacceptable, and the unionist people have voted for the dup because of their opposition to the dup. Please note that they are not opposed to peace, but to an unfair agreement.
They can be classified as extreme, because they believe in a cause passionately, but hery are not violent!!

Paisley is represented in the media as a devil, he really isnt, he is a good working MP, who attends to the needs of all his constiuents, whether protestant, catholic or australian, and this is seen when a substantial number of catholics voted for him over the past 30 years. Paisley is not anti catholic, but anti catholism, what he believes to be the wrong teachings of the catholic church

The GFA resulted in peace which has brought stability to the North, to characterise it simply as a failure is simplistic and naive. Political issues now extend beyond mere tribalism, economic growth and recovery have occured raising their own issues. However clearly political progress has stalled. In the North progress has been made when it is an inclusive process, and stagnation and regression have resulted when people are excluded. The peoples representatives must find a way to work together, or no progress can be made. The mandate that both the DUP and SF have received cannot be ignored by either side.

I would grant that Paisley is a fine constituency MP, however I don't think that the media on these islands unfairly characterise him. His tendancy for extreme hyperbole, his loud and brash character, his comments on Catholicism, etc etc, inevitably lead to media focus. I do not believe the media paint an unfair picture of him, certainly no more than any other public figures.

[Peter]

Paisley is represented in the media as a devil

Indeed, it is Ian Paisley who represents everybody else as a devil, especially Popes:

"I refuse you as Christ's enemy and Antichrist with all your false doctrine." -- To Pope John Paul II on a visit to the EU Parliament

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Not that I think that there is any difference between the two to start with, but Paisley has contradicted this himself in addressing a crowd at Loughgall, County Armagh: "I am anti-Roman Catholic"

Other gems from Ian Paisley

[Bono]

Paisley is represented in the media as a devil

Indeed, it is Ian Paisley who represents everybody else as a devil, especially Popes:

"I refuse you as Christ's enemy and Antichrist with all your false doctrine." -- To Pope John Paul II on a visit to the EU Parliament

What did the Pope answered?

[Peter]

I honestly doubt that he did, and even if he did, one could never understand anything he said anyway.

[patrick1]

Paisley is represented in the media as a devil

Indeed, it is Ian Paisley who represents everybody else as a devil, especially Popes:

"I refuse you as Christ's enemy and Antichrist with all your false doctrine." -- To Pope John Paul II on a visit to the EU Parliament

What did the Pope answered?

    World
World Notes RELIGION
 
Time Mag archive:

Oct. 24, 1988
Pope John Paul II had just begun his address to the European Parliament in Strasbourg last week when Northern Ireland's hard-line Protestant leader the Rev. Ian Paisley stood up and unfurled a red placard that read POPE JOHN PAUL II ANTICHRIST. In case that was not clear enough, Paisley roared, "Antichrist! I renounce you and all your cults and creeds." The Pope gave a slight, bemused smile while members of the Parliament shouted Paisley down. A brief scuffle broke out as they dragged him from the chamber.