Do you support gay marriages?

[CatoMinor]

Preferably the state wouldn't be involved in marriage at all. However as long as it is, equal protection and whatnot.

[SteveRogers]

Preferably the state wouldn't be involved in marriage at all. However as long as it is, equal protection and whatnot.

I'm glad to see at least one yellow avatar on here grasps this concept.

[bedstuy]

Preferably the state wouldn't be involved in marriage at all. However as long as it is, equal protection and whatnot.

No.  This is an infuriating red herring. 

The most basic libertarian conception of government's role is that a government enforces and defends contractual rights. 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I hope Hell exists.

Who are you hoping to hang out with?

Not you.

you build your theology around me... I'm flattered.

seriously though Hagrid, it's sad to see you so having so much hate that hell is the one piece of religion you still want to hang onto.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Strictly speaking the prohibitions against cutting hair and scarring the body are in the context of doing so as a means of mourning.

you could make that argument but it's not explicitly said

Depends on how good the translation is, Verses 27 and 28 are linked by a conjunction in the original Hebrew, so just as scarring the body in not to be done for the dead, I think it clear that the haircutting provisions are similarly restricted. Combined with the prohibitions in Leviticus 21, the clear intent is do not alter the body as a means of respect for either the dead or for God.

[afleitch]

I'm having one in 25 days, so.

Congratulations

[afleitch]

Basically, the Bible is for the Church to interpret, not a gaggle of random posters on an internet forum. Debate closed.

Uh, the Bible is for God's children, not a group of robed elitists in a dark room.

And with your logic we might as well shut down the whole forum.

Of course the Bible is for God's children... and being children, they lack the ability to interpret the Bible correctly by themselves.

So presumably I am just God's infant and the elites are his adult children. Even as a Catholic, that hierarchical metaphor is disturbing.

Well I'm not really a fan of the whole 'God's children' concept; I'm not the son of God, Jesus was the one and only son of God. My basic point is that individuals who are not priests and have no formal training or education in scripture have no right or competence in interpreting the Bible, in the same way as a person who has no medical training has no right or competence to make pronouncements upon medical issues.

I would question whether priests have enough life experience to interpret the breadth of human existence and therefore make pronouncement's on it.

[Cassius]

Basically, the Bible is for the Church to interpret, not a gaggle of random posters on an internet forum. Debate closed.

Uh, the Bible is for God's children, not a group of robed elitists in a dark room.

And with your logic we might as well shut down the whole forum.

Of course the Bible is for God's children... and being children, they lack the ability to interpret the Bible correctly by themselves.

So presumably I am just God's infant and the elites are his adult children. Even as a Catholic, that hierarchical metaphor is disturbing.

Well I'm not really a fan of the whole 'God's children' concept; I'm not the son of God, Jesus was the one and only son of God. My basic point is that individuals who are not priests and have no formal training or education in scripture have no right or competence in interpreting the Bible, in the same way as a person who has no medical training has no right or competence to make pronouncements upon medical issues.

I would question whether priests have enough life experience to interpret the breadth of human existence and therefore make pronouncement's on it.

But who does? No one does, yet someone must do so to in order for society to function. In my view it may as well be priests.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Basically, the Bible is for the Church to interpret, not a gaggle of random posters on an internet forum. Debate closed.

Uh, the Bible is for God's children, not a group of robed elitists in a dark room.

And with your logic we might as well shut down the whole forum.

Of course the Bible is for God's children... and being children, they lack the ability to interpret the Bible correctly by themselves.

So presumably I am just God's infant and the elites are his adult children. Even as a Catholic, that hierarchical metaphor is disturbing.

Well I'm not really a fan of the whole 'God's children' concept; I'm not the son of God, Jesus was the one and only son of God. My basic point is that individuals who are not priests and have no formal training or education in scripture have no right or competence in interpreting the Bible, in the same way as a person who has no medical training has no right or competence to make pronouncements upon medical issues.

I would question whether priests have enough life experience to interpret the breadth of human existence and therefore make pronouncement's on it.

But who does? No one does, yet someone must do so to in order for society to function. In my view it may as well be priests.

I agree, but then I'm a Protestant, so I hold to the priesthood of all believers.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I hope Hell exists.

Who are you hoping to hang out with?

Not you.

you build your theology around me... I'm flattered.

seriously though Hagrid, it's sad to see you so having so much hate that hell is the one piece of religion you still want to hang onto.

I don't think it's absurd to harbour some hatred towards people who hide behind outlandish fairy tales in order to justify their oppression of an already-marginalized group—especially since I happen to be a member of that group.

I don't believe in Hell. But if the freedom of religion excuse is going to be used to give people an out to discriminate against me and others like me, I think they ought to hold a mirror up before they judge the character of someone else. Plus, if that's what someone's religion honestly is, maybe it's time to spread the truth that the religion is in the wrong rather than let the discrimination continue. And if it does continue, they shouldn't expect upstanding citizens to just roll over. After all, using their strict rules, an unbiased observer may find that these oppressors are more deserving of a ticket on the Hell-bound train than a man who's simply trying to live equally among his peers while loving another man.

So I agree with you, shua: It's sad that I have this hate. I'm no saint. But who's hatred is coming from the more legitimate place? Who's really the victim? I'm sure you'll give some middle-of-the-road answer, but I'd say it's pretty clear who threw the first stone.

Christianity has a place in our society, but as long as it continues to use its influence to put down others, it's place will rightfully continue to diminish.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I hope Hell exists.

Who are you hoping to hang out with?

Not you.

you build your theology around me... I'm flattered.

seriously though Hagrid, it's sad to see you so having so much hate that hell is the one piece of religion you still want to hang onto.

I don't think it's absurd to harbour some hatred towards people who hide behind outlandish fairy tales in order to justify their oppression of an already-marginalized group—especially since I happen to be a member of that group.

I don't believe in Hell. But if the freedom of religion excuse is going to be used to give people an out to discriminate against me and others like me, I think they ought to hold a mirror up before they judge the character of someone else. Plus, if that's what someone's religion honestly is, maybe it's time to spread the truth that the religion is in the wrong rather than let the discrimination continue. And if it does continue, they shouldn't expect upstanding citizens to just roll over. After all, using their strict rules, an unbiased observer may find that these oppressors are more deserving of a ticket on the Hell-bound train than a man who's simply trying to live equally among his peers while loving another man.

So I agree with you, shua: It's sad that I have this hate. I'm no saint. But who's hatred is coming from the more legitimate place? Who's really the victim? I'm sure you'll give some middle-of-the-road answer, but I'd say it's pretty clear who threw the first stone.

Christianity has a place in our society, but as long as it continues to use its influence to put down others, it's place will rightfully continue to diminish.

You may legitimize all you want hatred for those who have a belief you don't like, but it doesn't change the self-destructive nature of that hate.   

There's a difference between judging actions and judging character.  If they are judging character, then they are in the wrong regardless of whether homosexual activity is a sin.

Here's your middle-of-the-road answer:   Those who hope for a hell to punish the sins of others are playing with fire.   

[Cassius]

I hope Hell exists.

Who are you hoping to hang out with?

Not you.

you build your theology around me... I'm flattered.

seriously though Hagrid, it's sad to see you so having so much hate that hell is the one piece of religion you still want to hang onto.

I don't think it's absurd to harbour some hatred towards people who hide behind outlandish fairy tales in order to justify their oppression of an already-marginalized group—especially since I happen to be a member of that group.

I don't believe in Hell. But if the freedom of religion excuse is going to be used to give people an out to discriminate against me and others like me, I think they ought to hold a mirror up before they judge the character of someone else. Plus, if that's what someone's religion honestly is, maybe it's time to spread the truth that the religion is in the wrong rather than let the discrimination continue. And if it does continue, they shouldn't expect upstanding citizens to just roll over. After all, using their strict rules, an unbiased observer may find that these oppressors are more deserving of a ticket on the Hell-bound train than a man who's simply trying to live equally among his peers while loving another man.

So I agree with you, shua: It's sad that I have this hate. I'm no saint. But who's hatred is coming from the more legitimate place? Who's really the victim? I'm sure you'll give some middle-of-the-road answer, but I'd say it's pretty clear who threw the first stone.

Christianity has a place in our society, but as long as it continues to use its influence to put down others, it's place will rightfully continue to diminish.

"Christianity has a place in our society as long as it moulds itself to conveniently fit 'who I am' as a person".

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I hope Hell exists.

Who are you hoping to hang out with?

Not you.

you build your theology around me... I'm flattered.

seriously though Hagrid, it's sad to see you so having so much hate that hell is the one piece of religion you still want to hang onto.

I don't think it's absurd to harbour some hatred towards people who hide behind outlandish fairy tales in order to justify their oppression of an already-marginalized group—especially since I happen to be a member of that group.

I don't believe in Hell. But if the freedom of religion excuse is going to be used to give people an out to discriminate against me and others like me, I think they ought to hold a mirror up before they judge the character of someone else. Plus, if that's what someone's religion honestly is, maybe it's time to spread the truth that the religion is in the wrong rather than let the discrimination continue. And if it does continue, they shouldn't expect upstanding citizens to just roll over. After all, using their strict rules, an unbiased observer may find that these oppressors are more deserving of a ticket on the Hell-bound train than a man who's simply trying to live equally among his peers while loving another man.

So I agree with you, shua: It's sad that I have this hate. I'm no saint. But who's hatred is coming from the more legitimate place? Who's really the victim? I'm sure you'll give some middle-of-the-road answer, but I'd say it's pretty clear who threw the first stone.

Christianity has a place in our society, but as long as it continues to use its influence to put down others, it's place will rightfully continue to diminish.

"Christianity has a place in our society as long as it moulds itself to conveniently fit 'who I am' as a person".

Yes, because there's only one gay person in the world, you see. 

Some estimates put the non-straight population as high as 10%. People can't control their sexual orientation. Having a religion that discriminates against that is not ideal by any stretch. It's not complicated. And "hate the sin not the sinner" may sound good to people who want to trick themselves into believing they're doing good deeds, but that isn't how real life works, especially when we're dealing with something as intrinsic as a person's identity.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Some estimates put the non-straight population as high as 10%. People can't control their sexual orientation. Having a religion that discriminates against that is not ideal by any stretch. It's not complicated. And "hate the sin not the sinner" may sound good to people who want to trick themselves into believing they're doing good deeds, but that isn't how real life works, especially when we're dealing with something as intrinsic as a person's identity.

At the risk of asking a hell-worthy question, what is it about homosexual acts that you believe to be intrinsic to a person's identity?

[DC Al Fine]

I hope Hell exists.

Who are you hoping to hang out with?

Not you.

you build your theology around me... I'm flattered.

seriously though Hagrid, it's sad to see you so having so much hate that hell is the one piece of religion you still want to hang onto.

I don't think it's absurd to harbour some hatred towards people who hide behind outlandish fairy tales in order to justify their oppression of an already-marginalized group—especially since I happen to be a member of that group.

I don't believe in Hell. But if the freedom of religion excuse is going to be used to give people an out to discriminate against me and others like me, I think they ought to hold a mirror up before they judge the character of someone else. Plus, if that's what someone's religion honestly is, maybe it's time to spread the truth that the religion is in the wrong rather than let the discrimination continue. And if it does continue, they shouldn't expect upstanding citizens to just roll over. After all, using their strict rules, an unbiased observer may find that these oppressors are more deserving of a ticket on the Hell-bound train than a man who's simply trying to live equally among his peers while loving another man.

So I agree with you, shua: It's sad that I have this hate. I'm no saint. But who's hatred is coming from the more legitimate place? Who's really the victim? I'm sure you'll give some middle-of-the-road answer, but I'd say it's pretty clear who threw the first stone.

Christianity has a place in our society, but as long as it continues to use its influence to put down others, it's place will rightfully continue to diminish.

"Christianity has a place in our society as long as it moulds itself to conveniently fit 'who I am' as a person".

Yes, because there's only one gay person in the world, you see. 

There's more than one glutton, idolater, greedy person etc in the world too. And somehow their issues with Christianity seem to match up with their particular sins too...